Evidence of meeting #30 for Electoral Reform in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was yukon.
7:35 p.m.
Former Senior Adviser on Electoral Reform, Yukon Government, As an Individual
Since that time, I've moved from being in an urban riding out to the Yukon bush. The only people I really discuss things with are my grandkids now, so it's a little too early for me to be talking about MMP and STV.
7:35 p.m.
Liberal
Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON
Having been an adviser on this issue for many years, are you personally satisfied with the first-past-the-post system? Do you think we can change something and do better—or is now better? I don't want to influence your answer.
7:35 p.m.
Former Senior Adviser on Electoral Reform, Yukon Government, As an Individual
I look at the number of women who have been leaders in the Yukon. I look at the number of first nations who have been leaders in the Yukon. I look at the voting percentages in both federal and territorial elections in the Yukon. I have to say that we've done pretty well by the first past the post system, until someone can prove to me that there's a better thing to come along.
7:35 p.m.
Liberal
Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON
Okay.
Ms. Maunder, you talked about youth feeling that their vote doesn't count. We hear that often. Is that perhaps a sentiment that can mean a couple of different things?
It wasn't too long ago that I would consider myself a youth as well, but a lot of my friends aren't interested in politics, and therefore they don't vote. They don't know what first past the post is or how the vote gets calculated. They haven't even thought about what the likely outcome would be, if it's fair or unfair. They just think that government is government and they're all alike, and all the parties are alike, and not much changes in their life at the end of the day.
These are the kinds of things I've heard from people I talk to, even in this past election. Sometimes in that sentiment, they often end off saying, “Oh, my vote doesn't really count, because what is it going to really matter? It's fine if everyone else goes and votes, and it's all going to be the same at the end of the day.” Could that be part of what they're feeling?
7:35 p.m.
Executive Director, BYTE- Empowering Youth Society
Yes, I suppose it could be.
7:35 p.m.
Liberal
Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON
I know that here your turnout is very high, so maybe you're not faced with that as much as we are in our areas.
7:35 p.m.
Executive Director, BYTE- Empowering Youth Society
Yes. If that is a reason for youth not wanting to go to the polls, then I think we need to look at our system anyway. If they're apathetic in that way, because government is government, and politics is politics, and it's going to be that way, then I think there is still something that needs to change.
7:35 p.m.
Liberal
Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON
What I find interesting is that voter turnout amongst all populations is on the downturn all across the world. Even in New Zealand, once they changed their system, it spiked up for a bit, by a few percentages, and then it came right back down again, and we're not too far off the general trend all across the world. The point is noted that we need to do something about it, but even when you compare countries with different types of voting systems, the turn is still downward, regardless of the system. It's not on the increase.
7:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thanks very much. We're over time.
We'll go to Mr. Boulerice.
7:35 p.m.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd also like to thank the three witnesses for their presentations, as well as all those who went out of their way to be here this evening.
I'll go ahead and warn the interpreters that, even though I'll be speaking French, I'm going to use the English term “first past the post” because it's faster to say and packs a bigger punch than the French term “système uninominal majoritaire à un tour”.
This special committee was given a mandate to study the issue of an alternative voting system for the Canadian federation. The Prime Minister was very clear during the election campaign. He said that the 2015 federal election would be the last such election under the first-past-the-post voting system, and the reasons for that are obvious. The system creates false majorities and significantly distorts the true will of the electorate, Canadian voters. These false majorities misrepresent the will of the people. Election results no longer reflect the reality, the choices people have made, or their desire to have their voice represented in Parliament.
Ms. Michaud, you are proposing a mixed member proportional system that would partly resolve those issues while maintaining the link with a local elected representative, something everyone wants. But there are a number of ways to do that: through provincial or regional lists or through larger ridings—perhaps not for Yukon—with three, six, or seven members per large riding.
Which of the two systems do you prefer?
7:40 p.m.
Representative, New Democratic Party Yukon federal riding association
That's an excellent question.
I, personally, really like the idea of provincial, territorial, or regional lists, depending on how you want to do it. There's a lot of potential there.
As I mentioned during my presentation, electoral reforms could be an opportunity for the parties to nominate more candidates who are women or minorities, who aren't always represented.
We are told that the Senate will be the answer to the issue of regional representation, but I think we've just found a good alternative to that. The Senate no longer needs to ensure regional representation if democratically elected members fulfill that role. I think that's something the committee members should think about.
Perhaps we could cut down on expenses. Perhaps we could save the $92 million incurred in Senate-related spending every year. That money could be reinvested in our voting system to ensure better representation.
7:40 p.m.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Some of the objectives of our electoral reform study are to achieve better representation, retain the link with a local elected representative, and ensure that the voting process does not become overly complex.
I have a confession. I held mock elections in senior kindergarten classes for five-year-olds. I can't deny that I used the first-past-the-post system because it was indeed more straightforward. The kids weren't voting for a candidate from a political party but, rather, an animal that would represent their class.
7:40 p.m.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
The giraffe won.
Under a mixed member proportional system, people have to cast two votes, as they do in Germany, where people vote directly for a local representative and a candidate from the party lists.
Do you think Quebecers, Canadians, and Yukoners could handle that level of complexity?
7:40 p.m.
Representative, New Democratic Party Yukon federal riding association
I would like to think so. I think all Canadians, in every part of the country, are smart enough to fill out two ballots. I'm not too concerned about that.
7:40 p.m.
NDP
7:40 p.m.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Ms. Maunder, are you in favour of having polling stations for students on college and university campuses in order to make it easier for young people to vote in an election?
7:40 p.m.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. McKinnon, you've done a lot of work on this issue, and yet you still seem to be reluctant to say which system you prefer. You are probably the most knowledgeable among us, but it may be your knowledge that makes you reluctant.
Would a system offering larger multi-member ridings make it possible to achieve a certain degree of proportionality while preserving the important link with an elected local representative?
7:40 p.m.
Former Senior Adviser on Electoral Reform, Yukon Government, As an Individual
It would. A small portion of proportionality.... As we all know from everything we've read or studied on a proportional system, the more people you have running in a riding, the purer proportionality you're going to get. There would be some measure of proportionality with the two-ballot system in a large northern riding.
7:40 p.m.
Liberal
7:40 p.m.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Thank you.
I'd like to talk again a little bit about online voting. I heard Ms. Maunder speak of the desirability of online voting to make it more convenient, convenience or inconvenience being seemingly a barrier to youth participation in elections.
We had a member of the public from an earlier session this afternoon speak quite strongly in opposition to electronic voting due to all of the issues of security, of the potential for fraud, and the servers that are outside of Canada through which the voting system would be filtered.
How important would online voting be to the goal of enhancing the participation of younger people?
7:45 p.m.
Executive Director, BYTE- Empowering Youth Society
As Mr. Cullen mentioned, BYTE is not expert in electoral reform, and we're not engaging youth on this topic all the time, but I was reading earlier that 70% of Canadians are in favour of online voting, and I think that, with such strong numbers, it's only reasonable to expect that it would increase turnout and youth turnout as well.
7:45 p.m.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Another witness earlier today spoke of the particular vulnerabilities of remote communities to access. It doesn't take much for an Internet connection to go down over a large area in remote communities. Were this to happen on an election day, with perhaps a more catastrophic problem than even a storm or other conditions, would that be that a factor? Would this have to be addressed with online voting?