Environment Committee on March 22nd, 2007

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Yes.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Has that report been made public?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

It's been tabled with the United Nations. I don't know if it's been posted on the Internet, but we're—I'm the first Minister of the Environment who can say that Canada is fully compliant in our filings with the United Nations.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Congratulations. How late were we in filing that report?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Mr. Dion was to table one on January 1, 2006, in the middle of the election, and he didn't. There was one that was supposed to be tabled on January 1, 2007, and it was a few months late, but they're both tabled now.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

In developing your so-called ecoTrust program, did you consult with the organization that's actually named Ecotrust before you did it?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I think there was a bit of confusion. We weren't aware of it. I'll be meeting later this week or next week with Ecotrust Canada. They, I think, personify the kind of initiative that was demonstrated in our funding of the Great Bear Rainforest. They work with business, with the aboriginal community, and with hosting the environment—

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I know the group well. They were quite surprised to find out that the government launched a major environmental program with a name exactly like their name, without...and this is a major group. They have been around 14 years or more in British Columbia. The government didn't have its act together enough to check out the name, do a little Google search maybe, before you launched your major initiative.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I had a very constructive and productive discussion with the board chair and I'll be meeting with her shortly.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

You're aware of Google.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Cullen, your time is up.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I apologize. Both our reports are on our website. I appreciate congratulations on my being the first minister in many years to be fully compliant with Kyoto. The report will be tabled.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to thank the minister for being here. I found it interesting that for the first 22 minutes there was a lot of bluster, and time was unfortunately wasted on making sure that the only topic, according to the Liberals, was questions on the supplementary estimates, yet there were no questions on that, which is quite ironic.

So here we are, and we thank you for being here, Minister. I was extremely pleased when the budget was introduced on Monday, March 19.

When the Commissioner of the Environment came to speak to the committee we heard that the previous Liberal government had announced $6 billion for the environment but provided funding of only $1.3 billion. So there was a phony announcement of $4.7 billion.

You've provided $4.5 billion in this budget relating to the environment. How does this budget improve on the Liberal plan?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

A lot was talked about, but very little rubber actually hit the road. I think the exciting thing about this year's budget is that it gives us substantial resources, particularly to engage with the provinces. One of the challenges with Kyoto has been the lack of engagement with the provinces. The provinces have a co-shared responsibility on the environment. They by and large have responsibility for electricity, which is one of the biggest fossil fuel generators—one of the biggest emitters of both greenhouse gases and air pollutants.

I think this ecoTrust of $1.5 billion is a signal that we want to work cooperatively with the provinces. I know that both David Anderson, the former Liberal minister, and Christine Stewart, the former Liberal environment minister, have said that the former Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs was always very cautious and didn't want to push Kyoto because he didn't want to disrupt relations with the provinces. That was, of course, Stéphane Dion.

Rather than not move forward on Kyoto because we didn't want to rock the boat with the provinces, we have a pretty active, exciting engagement with the provinces that reflects the differences in all their jurisdictions. In Quebec they're doing some work with geo-thermal. In British Columbia they're doing some work with the hydrogen highway, which is very exciting. In Ontario, they're looking at a national electricity grid, working with the Province of Manitoba. In Alberta they're looking at carbon capture and storage, amongst a number of things. So I think you can see some innovation provincially that will be exciting and will be constructive in the effort to reduce greenhouse gases.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Minister, how much did the Liberals spend in 2005 on the environment? The figure I have is only $500 million. Are you familiar with that figure?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

It was very modest.

[Basia Ruta, Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Department of the Environment]

For 2005-06 we had $512 million for climate change programs. So that was for one year.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Thank you.

To reconfirm, the Kyoto target that the Liberal government signed Canada to was 6% below 1990 levels, and it's now approximately 35% above that target. Is that correct?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

That's correct.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

So what concrete action is the government taking to reduce greenhouse gas emissions? You've already announced many programs, but what are your favourite programs that you'd like to share?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I think the biggest initiative will be the industrial regulations. We've put out the notice of intent, which in broad terms lays out where we intend to go. We'll be following through with specific industrial targets for the short term, and I think they will be very aggressive.

I'm not aware of any country that's going as far as we are, at least in the sphere we're looking at. I think as well, though, that the engagement with the provinces is absolutely key. I think it's a constructive and open federalism, which I think is good, and I think it acknowledges that what Quebec needs is different from what Ontario needs. What Nova Scotia needs will be different from what British Columbia needs. It allows some flexibility.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Minister, you've been able to accomplish in 13 months far more than the previous government did in 13 years.

My question is about how we get that balance in reducing greenhouse gas emissions and pollution levels. The Clean Air Act deals with both greenhouse gas emissions and pollution levels, both indoor and outdoor. How important is technology? What is the balance? To reduce greenhouse gas emissions for a cleaner environment, some have suggested that we slow down the economy. My understanding is that you're not supportive of that.

How important is technology to—?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I think it was acknowledged that one big consensus that came out of the G8+5 meetings was that technology offers the very best hope for lowering carbon emissions around the world, of lowering greenhouse gas emissions around the world. And there was a second consensus with respect to the science, obviously.

I think where Canada can provide some real leadership is on carbon capture and storage. What's going on in Weyburn, Saskatchewan, with NRCan is exciting. The carbon capture and storage task force we've established will very much be focused on how to deploy. And I indicated to other countries, particularly the Americans and the Chinese, that we're very keen to work with them on what we can do to share that technology. We have to deal substantively with intellectual property rights, but I think it would be a great role for Canada to play in carbon capture and storage deployment.

Here in Ontario, my home province, we have four coal-fired generating stations. In China now there are 134 being constructed. I believe it's important for the industrialized world to show some leadership in reducing greenhouse gases. But if we can help, on the technology side, an economy like China's, which needs 7%, 8%, 9% growth just to feed its population growth and people entering the workforce—With those 134 coal-fired generating stations that are being constructed, technology will be absolutely key.

I think Canada can play a constructive role, with others, on issues like technology and carbon capture and storage. And that's certainly an area where I have indicated our willingness to work not just with China but with the global community.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

I'd like you to comment a little bit more on the fuel-efficient vehicle initiatives. I think it's very important. We've heard from witnesses that about 50% of the greenhouse gas emissions are coming from consumer use, and now there's an incentive so people can drive more fuel-efficient vehicles. The lower the fuel consumption, of course, the lower the amount of greenhouse gas emissions that are coming out.

So I love the idea. I drive a hybrid. I wish we had had a Conservative government when I bought mine.

Anyway, can you just elaborate a little bit more on the initiative?