Environment Committee on May 8th, 2007

[Robert Schwartz]

There have been no studies done that I know of that indicate whether anything is in the water. In my estimation, these studies have not been done because nobody wants a baseline.

[Marcel Lussier, Bloc, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Ernst, you talked about the noise made by compressors. Are there presently any standards in Alberta specifying a minimum distance between a residence and the location of a compressor?

[Jessica Ernst]

Mr. Lussier, that's a brilliant question. This is one of the cumulative effects that is becoming so serious in Alberta because it seems that humanity is not being considered.

One of my neighbours runs a cattle ranch. A well was first put right beside the house--a few hundred metres--and within a short time a compressor came. The farmer and I noticed that in the different environmental conditions, when the temperatures fluctuate...because noise normally goes up...when it's colder it rolls down. We live in a lot of coulee land, like the Gatineau Hills, beautiful rolling hills. Every time the compressor noise would go up, the cattle would raise.... So this could have an implication financially to the farmer. It could cause them stress. The World Health Organization has studied noise. And the compressors can be very close to homes.

In my community, there are two compressors about 900 metres away. I lived in two coulees where the noise bounced off and magnified the noise.

In the early planning stages industry is supposed to consider communities, where you have, like mine, a historic resource. Industry should not interfere with the historic resource of a small tourist town. In our community this planning was not done. The compressors were just put in. They could have been moved farther away, especially from the coulee walls.

[Marcel Lussier, Bloc, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Somebody mentioned earlier the natural occurrence of methane. Did I understand you to say, Ms. Ernst, that there was no gas infiltration in your well a few years ago, before the oil companies started drilling for methane?

[Jessica Ernst]

I will clarify, Monsieur Lussier. This is one of the problems where the MAC has failed the people of Alberta. The testing was only begun in 2006. These experiments took place in our drinking water in 2004 and earlier.

I do not know what was in my water. EnCana actually came to in 2003, for a well on my neighbour's land, and I asked to test my well. But one of the problems is that this company didn't tell us coal-bed methane was coming around us. They actually said in public, “No, it's not coming yet”, and through investigation and searching, I found out they had already drilled 35 CBM wells right around us. In fact, they had already fractured into our drinking water. They didn't tell us, they didn't monitor the water, and as soon as they knew they had done this.... So, unfortunately, I have no knowledge of what was in my water first.

If they had told me it was going to be CBM, because I work in the patch, I would have insisted on proper hydrocarbon testing and the BTEX. This was not done. However, I'm a scientist, so I observe my water. There has been gas, historically, in Alberta water, but nobody knows what it is. There are no studies on whether it was methane.... It could be CO₂. It could be a pump causing a lot of oxygen and bubbles.

Before the CBM, my water would only have bubbles for a few seconds. In 2005, all of a sudden, it was for more than a minute, and the bubbles would shoot high off the glass, so anecdotally, that's an indicator of a big change. Some experts have said natural methane in groundwater is usually below one milligram per litre. Ours is up to 30 milligrams to 66 milligrams. That's far more than natural.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Thank you, Mr. Lussier.

Mr. Cullen, please.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to all our witnesses for being here.

My communities in northwestern British Columbia are struggling with the same issue right now. As Mr. Pryce and his colleagues will know, there's great interest in coal-bed methane in British Columbia, now washing over from Alberta, and the question has boiled down to risks versus benefits, at the local community level certainly: how much risk is incurred by the local community versus how much benefit they'll receive back, whether in jobs or future development?

I have to say I was rather neutral on the issue two years ago, but the education that I and some of my citizens have gone through over the last couple of years has put up a strong resistance.

Mr. Pryce will be aware of the Klappan project in northwestern British Columbia, a very significant resource, as well as the Telkwa fields and some others in British Columbia. The reason I'm prefacing my questions with this is because in his questions of options for the government and the regulators of the day...I'm curious as to where the citizens actually engage and have input as to whether something goes ahead.

My first question for Mr. Pryce is around the scope of the resource. I'm just looking over some of the research we've had done. I imagine you would describe this as a significant resource going ahead over the next 10 or 20 years, just in terms of volume, potential earnings, etc.

[David Pryce]

Yes, that's the case. To put it in perspective, the conventional natural gas in Alberta is about 100 trillion cubic feet; the coal-bed methane potential is about 600 trillion cubic feet. A vast resource on the conventional side is significantly exceeded by this resource as a potential.

The challenge is in finding ways to make this a commercial resource going forward, because it is a low-productivity resource. One of the benefits, though, is that it is a long-term-producing resource.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

If I were a landowner in Alberta right now and a company was coming in wishing to drill CBM sites around my property, do I or any of my neighbours have the capacity to resist or refuse those wells?

[David Pryce]

I'm going to defer the question to Mr. Cline.

[Cam Cline]

Of course, several tens of thousands of wells get drilled in Alberta every year, and those include several thousand CBM wells. In the vast majority of cases, landowners are very comfortable to have you drill on their land.

If they have a concern—

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

That wasn't the question, though. Let me phrase my question directly.

If I were a landowner in Alberta and there was a plan to drill a well on my property, do I have the ability myself, or with my neighbours, to refuse or resist that project?

[Cam Cline]

There is a process run by the Alberta Energy and Utilities Board by which you can ask that the well not be drilled. The final decision is made by the Energy and Utilities Board on the basis of the interests of society. It also takes into account the impact on the landowner.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Let me ask a very specific question about this utility board. Is it the equivalent of the Oil and Gas Commission in British Columbia? Is that the equivalency in regulators?

[David Pryce]

It's similar. The difference is that there is actually a board that sits in a hearing process. In British Columbia, the Oil and Gas Commission makes the decision as a regulator; the Alberta Energy and Utilities Board is a quasi-judicial board and process.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Is there membership on that board of any citizens' groups, first nations, or environmental organizations?

[David Pryce]

The board composition probably does not include them at this point in time.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Is there a representative from industry?

[David Pryce]

No, there is not.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Is it made up entirely of bureaucrats within the government? Is that what the board is?

[David Pryce]

The board is appointed by the Government of Alberta. It includes professional experts who may have rolled up through the staff at the board, but it also includes former politicians in the municipal world as well. There is a cross-section in that sense.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I'll put this to Ms. Ernst or Mr. Schwartz. Has there ever been an assessment of property value before and after wells are drilled on a particular property in Alberta? Does property value go up, stay the same, or go down once people have CBM wells on their property?

[Robert Schwartz]

There has been a study done. It's a hard one to get a hold of, but according to this study, property values do go down in proximity to oil and gas facilities. There's no doubt.

To answer your previous question, you can refuse all you want on an oil facility; you will end up having that thing. They will make you wear this well or pipeline one way or another.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I have a question about contamination. Mr. Pryce, you alluded earlier to the idea that there is naturally occurring methane in drinking water in wells within Alberta. Did I hear you correctly?

[David Pryce]

Yes.