Environment Committee on Feb. 25th, 2008

[Marcel Lussier, Bloc, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Morton, your CV states that you are the father of two boys, Jackson and Charlie. You represent a number of groups that are active in the fight against greenhouse gases and you talk about healthy homes in Canada.

What is the attitude of youth with respect to the mission you had been given in Bali? Have you been criticized?

[Ian Morton]

Mr. Chairman, I'm unilingual, so could you maybe have that question translated for me?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Basically, I think he was referring to your sons and their involvement in various environmental movements and groups. I think Mr. Lussier wonders if, when you go home at night, you get into discussions or arguments with them.

I think that's a fair translation, Mr. Lussier?

[Marcel Lussier, Bloc, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Yes.

[Ian Morton]

My children are nine and six.

[Marcel Lussier, Bloc, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Oh, they're young.

[Ian Morton]

They're very young. We read to them, and we involve them in local ravine cleanups.

My business is about making change and having a positive difference. I would be happy to meet with Mr. Lussier and explain the work we have done over my career. I think the work we have done and continue to deliver across Canada for many communities has been awarded and well acknowledged for how it's reducing climate emissions and works closely with business.

I personally am very concerned about the future of our planet. That's really why I set up my business and employ so many people in Canada, and now we are growing into the United States. This is a fundamental issue for future generations, and I care very deeply about the health of our planet and obviously the opportunity that presents for Canada to take a leadership role.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Thank you, Mr. Morton.

I guess I'd love to answer your question too, Mr. Lussier, because I have older kids at home, and certainly we get into great debate. A couple, even, are PhDs and they really get into debate. Anyway, we'll talk about it some time.

Mr. Harvey.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Johnson, based on what you see today and the fact that you have been here for several years, do you believe the Chrétien government was prudent and realistic when it signed the Kyoto Protocol?

I have only got five minutes so I would ask you to respond briefly, as I have other questions to ask.

[Pierre Marc Johnson]

I will simply say this: it did not work out.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

I spoke to officials in the Department of Finance. I was told that a cost assessment was done in 1993, but that there was no study before 1997 to assess the drop of 6% below 1990 levels.

[Pierre Marc Johnson]

To my knowledge, it happened when Mr. Clinton appeared before the United Nations. I believe he announced a 5% drop. He could have announced 25%, but he knew full well that the American senate would not adopt it. Obviously it was easy for him to set out a figure.

In Canada on the other hand, when the Prime Minister takes a position on a treaty, it is adopted. By definition he controls the cabinet. If there is a cabinet, there has been a vote of confidence. In this case there has been no vote of confidence before Parliament.

The issues really revolve around oil sands, transport and industry. With respect to oil sands, the solution is nuclear energy. We need to have enough energy for the extraction process. There is also carbon capture and storage. It remains to be seen whether or not we are advanced enough from a technological standpoint for that to make any sense.

Moreover, the industrial sector is responsible for 43% of the emissions in Canada. We are going to have to crack down harder. I assume that would happen in time, at least I hope so. Finally, there is automobile transport. You are talking about people's habits, at home or elsewhere. Changing our lifestyle habits is not easy, but that is the key issue. For my part, not only would I like to see public awareness-raising campaigns, but I would also like to see tax instruments used to help change people's behaviours.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Perhaps you are aware of the bill that has been tabled on that issue. It is Bill C-377, which asks for a 53% reduction by 2020. We asked Mr. Layton whether he had done any financial feasibility studies.

What do you think of that?

[Pierre Marc Johnson]

I would like to see us as be effective as most European countries. We have not gotten there yet. The real issue is knowing when we will and under what conditions. In our case, these conditions are directly related to our proximity to the United States. That is the reason why I reiterate my point of view that in order to address this situation, there needs to be an agreement between the large emitters. That is where we have a part to play.

Kyoto is a fundamental symbol of progress for humanity, but we have to go beyond that debate, even though it is important. The future also has to do with everything that remains to be negotiated. Taking a stand based only on Kyoto requirements would mean bypassing the major issues.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Morton, you can't hear the interpretation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Yes, he has translation.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Yes? Are you all right, Mr. Morton?

[Ian Morton]

I'm sorry, are you asking...? I missed the question.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Are you able to give me an answer about the last discussion?

[Ian Morton]

I heard you provide a bit of the background. Are you asking me about my perspective on what is required from a domestic action plan?

It's hard for me to hear.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I think basically what Mr. Harvey wants to know is what your opinion on that 20% reduction is.

You can give it in English, and Mr. Harvey will get it in French.

[Ian Morton]

As was stated earlier, and the minister indicated this in Bali, Canada needs to strengthen its domestic plan to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and a number of experts have stated that it will be very difficult for Canada to achieve its targets with the current policy framework that's been put forward.

I'm not promoting myself as an expert in public policy, but I think it's clear that Canada will require a significant investment in energy efficiency improvements, in standards and guidelines that are going to dramatically improve the efficiencies of our vehicles and fleets, our appliance standards, and houses and buildings. We're also going to need to have an aggressive renewable energy plan and ultimately put a value on carbons. I'm not proposing taxes, but I think that until the emission has a value—it's currently valueless—it's going to be very difficult over the long term to reduce emissions to the level that's going to be required to meet the 80% reduction by 2050.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Harvey.

Ms. Bennett.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Thank you very much.

I'd just like to go back to the beginning, to how the delegation was comprised. You mentioned that in Nairobi there was a view that the role of the NGOs was less than positive. Was there feedback on the role of opposition MPs on that trip?

[Pierre Marc Johnson]

No, I didn't hear about it. I did hear an expression about the Minister of Environment in Nairobi being transformed into a piñata. I heard that expression.