Environment Committee on April 7th, 2008

[An hon. member]

The list is open.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Yes, the list is open until we actually call it, and that's how it is, and that's how it will always be. The list will be open, and before we vote we will ask if there is anyone else who has anything else they want to say. We can keep going that way as long as you want to go. So right now I have Mr. Harvey, Mr. Warawa, Mr. Petit, and that's all I have, but I will ask at the end of that if anyone else wants to be added to that list. I will accept anybody else's name on that list.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Chair, just as a point of information for our viewers, those are all Conservative members again.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

That's correct.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Through you, Mr. Chair, to the clerk, can you give us, again, a time update on the amount of time that's been taken since we started this Bill C-377 debate? How many hours have the Conservative government members filibustered this bill? It's just in the interests of Canadians knowing exactly how much of their money is being wasted by the government members on this very question of filibustering, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Petit, to this point of order—

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

On a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I'm going to answer that once and for all.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, if you could.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I have a point of order.

For approximately three hours now, I have been hearing Mr. McGuinty talk about filibustering. If he isn't happy, he can go and sit somewhere else. We are not filibustering. We have every right to defend ourselves and to make arguments in support of our own constituents. So, I would like him to use another term. The term « filibustering » doesn't exist.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Okay, Mr. McGuinty, I believe you've made your point about the timing, and we're putting the clerk in a pretty unfriendly position where he's ruling on what is really a political statement about time. So if you could ask one of your staff to keep track of the time that this has gone on, you're more than welcome. You can have the floor; you can be on the list and make that point. I think the clerk is feeling more and more uncomfortable being put in a situation of answering those kinds of questions, even though you do it through me. I'm not going to keep a clock running. So if you can continue to do that, that's fine.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

So, Mr. Chair, on this very point of order, there's nothing in the rules that allows committees to monitor and report from the chair and the clerk, from the head of the table, exactly how the debate is unfolding, the number of hours.... There's nothing in the rules whatsoever on that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I think my job and both clerks' jobs are to keep things going in an orderly way, to keep the debate going in an orderly way. I know the frustrations that some of you are having—

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Is there anything in the rules that talks about reporting to the members here in terms of the number of hours dominated in the debate by four government members filibustering?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I think it's a substantial question, but if we get the same question every hour, I think our viewers can use their watches and figure out the time. Certainly your political staff can advise you of the time if you're too busy listening to be able to do that. We get the point. I don't think we should keep entertaining points of order. I would rather we move on. I certainly would rather that we get Bill C-377 done, but that's just--

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Chair, I need an answer to this specific question I put to you, through you to the clerks and yourself: is there anything in the rules that allows committees to track the time and report to the membership on the duration of debate, no matter who's speaking, on a regular basis?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I will attempt to do that after we close the meeting. I will update you on exactly what time has expired. So I'll start now and I'll look at my watch and I will let you know what time it is when the meeting is over and we've adjourned, but I will not constantly interrupt the meeting to do that.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

So you are asking me as an individual member of Parliament to reveal to Canadians watching that we've seen non-stop obstruction for over sixteen hours?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I would like to get to Mr. Harvey.

Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

I'm going to speak to the point of order Mr. McGuinty has tried to raise.

I'd like to turn to page 539 of Marleau and Montpetit, and it's talking about points of order. It says:

Any Member can interrupt a Member who has the floor of the House

--and at this time it's Mr. Harvey--

during debate and bring to the Chair's attention a procedural irregularity the moment it occurs, in which case the Member who has the floor resumes his or her seat until the matter is resolved or disposed of.

What we've seen repeatedly from Mr. McGuinty is the raising of points of order that have nothing to do with procedural irregularity. The fact is, Mr. McGuinty has twice voted against the rules, and I would--

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Chair, on a point of order.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Chair, I have the point of order I'm speaking to, and Mr. McGuinty has--

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Point or order. Just to remind the parliamentary secretary, he's not the chair.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

I have the floor.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

It's not for him to interpret the rules.