Evidence of meeting #38 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was water.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Thank you.
Is it not also fair to say that the oil sands companies now are only using about 60% of the water they're permitted to use under their licensing with the Alberta government?
5:20 p.m.
President, Canadian Centre for Energy Information
I believe that's the number I've heard, but I would need to double-check that and get back to you. Quite often they're not using the full amount allowed.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Since this is a fact-finding mission, we actually have the largest oil reservoir in the world, but the technology is not there yet to get all that oil out. We have about 2.4 trillion barrels of oil, which would make us the largest reserve, in fact first over Saudi Arabia. Is that fair to say?
5:20 p.m.
President, Canadian Centre for Energy Information
Sorry, can you restate your figures?
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
I've heard a lot of different figures, but my understanding is that most experts agree there are about 2.4 trillion barrels of oil but we only have the technology for about 1.7 trillion barrels today.
5:20 p.m.
President, Canadian Centre for Energy Information
The number I've heard is 1.7 trillion barrels, of which 174 billion barrels are considered recoverable today.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
As I said, the experts disagree a lot on different issues with respect to that.
Mr. Chair, I have no more questions.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bob Mills
Okay. We'll go back to Mr. McGuinty.
I should point out to members, too, that this was to be an overview. In the fall, we will be bringing experts in, and you can ask specific questions to the people who will know those answers.
Mr. McGuinty.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Great.
Ms. Killingsworth, when you are looking for numbers to answer the question I asked you earlier—which are not on page 20 of the report my colleague Mr. Jean referred me to, because they are extrapolated numbers—I would like to get the real numbers from 2007-08.
What revenues in fiscal 2007-08 accrued to the Alberta government and to the federal government, and what net profits accrued to either the Canadian or international oil and gas companies in 2007-08 from the oil sands? Can you get those numbers?
5:20 p.m.
President, Canadian Centre for Energy Information
I will endeavour to do so.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Okay. They are not in the report here at all. They're not the same numbers I'm looking for.
Can I ask either of you if you know—and if you don't, maybe you can get us some information—who is liable for the tailings ponds?
This is a massive brownfield, if not a black field. To my knowledge, there is no technology known yet to clean up these sites. They are visible from space. They are 50 square kilometres. Do you know who is liable for these?
5:20 p.m.
President, Canadian Centre for Energy Information
I will need to get back to you with that information.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Maybe you could specify, is it the citizens of Alberta, the citizens of Canada, or their governments? Is it the proponents who are there on the ground digging up the bitumen? Who is liable for these tailings ponds, and what is their projected growth from now until, say, 2021, which is the common number used in the natural resources committee report of March 2007? It's the common number used by the Canadian Energy Research Institute, and I think it's a number you might have used earlier. I don't recall. How big are these projected to get?
That would be very helpful for us.
5:25 p.m.
President, Canadian Centre for Energy Information
Mr. McGuinty, I will get you that information.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Thank you.
I have another question for you. I asked the question of the witnesses earlier.
Somewhere between 3.6 million and 5 million barrels of fresh water a day are presently being used to extract 1.2 million barrels of oil. Do you have access to any metrics, any measurement, any hydrogeology to tell us whether or not the extraction levels are sustainable from the primary water sources? Has that work ever been done?
5:25 p.m.
President, Canadian Centre for Energy Information
I will do some research into that and get back to you.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Okay.
As to my final question, you talk in the last page of your deck about being funded.... You're non-profit, of course, but who funds the Canadian Centre for Energy Information?
5:25 p.m.
President, Canadian Centre for Energy Information
The Canadian Centre for Energy Information is a public-private partnership. We receive funding from the federal government, from Natural Resources Canada. We do projects with Foreign Affairs Canada. We receive funding from provinces, as well as industry.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
What is your relative breakdown? Are you hired as a consulting research arm for governments, or do you get core funding?
5:25 p.m.
President, Canadian Centre for Energy Information
We have a contribution agreement with Natural Resources Canada to help us develop baseline information on Canadian energy.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Can you help us understand, how much of your financial support is private and how much is public?
5:25 p.m.
President, Canadian Centre for Energy Information
I would estimate that about 60% to 65% is private, and the rest is public. Again, as a non-advocacy organization, we have a set of guiding principles that help direct how we develop content, and that outlines our whole stakeholder review process to make sure our information is balanced and factually accurate.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bob Mills
I would like to give Mr. Watson and then Mr. Lussier an opportunity here in the last couple of minutes.
Mr. Watson.
June 16th, 2008 / 5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our witnesses for appearing here today.
I think most of us tend to focus on the impact of the oil sands as being largely to the province of Alberta. Can you outline for the committee the impacts to the province of Ontario? There's a Liberal premier who spends a lot of time criticizing oil sands development. Those of us who are in the know, perhaps including the premier himself, have an understanding of the significant economic impacts of the oil sands to the province of Ontario. Can you elaborate a little bit for the benefit of the committee?
I'll ask a second question as a follow-up to that. With a softening Ontario economy and the economic benefit from the oil sands, can you talk about the potential impacts of a proposed carbon tax on the industry in the oil sands and what that could mean?
Those are the questions.