Environment Committee on May 7th, 2009

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

But does it specifically or simply have to do with ensuring that the officer has that right? So an officer would arrive at the ship and say, here's my card, and under the provision of this law I have the right to pass through this ship in order to get to what's happening on the other side. Is that specifically what this has to do with? It's not just the right to enter and inspect inside the ship, but it's meant to be about the right of passage through.

[Sarah Cosgrove]

This is meant to be the right of passage through private property, land-based or other. The powers for entering properties for inspection, investigation, and other are found in other provisions of the statute.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

In other provisions, okay.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I think we're almost ready to vote on this.

Mr. Trudeau, did you want to say something?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

The right of passage and the right of inspection are two very different things. We've already determined that. The right of passage is an important right that we do not want to restrict in order that our officers may discharge their duties.

I have a question for you, Mr. Bigras. Do you think that substituting the preposition “sur” for “dans” weakens or strengthens the right of passage?

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

The issue is not whether substituting the wording with “sur une propriété privée” strengthens or weakens the right of passage. The issue is whether or not enforcement officers must have the right to enter on or pass through or over a property. I see a problem here in the French version with inspectors or enforcement officers being able to enter on or pass through a property.

Perhaps the English version could be amended. I don't know whether it is possible to amend that version to read “may enter into”. I don't know, but it seems to me that we cannot have two different versions.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

You are quite right.

Let me put my question then to officers.

I'll ask this in English. Is there a difference in your mind between “enter on and pass through or over” and “enter in and pass through”? Does “enter on and pass through or over” include the right to walk through a building, house, warehouse, or ship in the main sense that the handy word “dans” does in French?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Would you like to answer that?

[Sarah Cosgrove]

Our understanding, from discussions with drafters, is that the way this particular provision is crafted in English would allow our enforcement officers, or anyone designated, to pass through buildings in addition to over property that didn't have buildings resting on it.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Okay. Therefore, since “sur” in French would not necessarily allow the ability to walk into buildings, I think the modification actually weakens the French version and diverges from the sense of the English version.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you, Mr. Trudeau.

Is there more discussion on this, or do you think we're ready to vote?

Ms. Duncan.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I don't want to be difficult, but not being linguistically inclined, can somebody please offer me a clear definition of the two words so I can decide?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Which two words?

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

“Sur” versus “dans”.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

“Sur” means on the surface, at least the way I understand it. “Dans” means inside. “Sur une propriété” means that you can go over someone's property, but not into someone's house. It's that kind of thing.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

So it's the issue of consistency. If the government wants all acts to be consistent--

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay. I think we're going to call the question, if no one objects.

(Amendment agreed to)

And it applies to BQ-4, BQ-6, BQ-8, BQ-10, BQ-12, and BQ-16.

(Clause 21 as amended agreed to)

(Clauses 22 to 25 inclusive agreed to)

(On clause 26)

That brings us to clause 26. Those amendments have apparently been adopted, so are we in favour of clause 26 as amended?

[A voice]

They didn't adopt them.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Sorry. So we're on clause 26 and NDP-3?

[Wayne Cole, Procedural Clerk]

No. Those have been defeated. So it's just clause 26.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Those have been defeated? Okay.

(Clause 26 agreed to)

(On clause 27)

That brings us to clause 27 and amendment G-2.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

What page are the amendments on, please?

[A voice]

Page 9.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I have a question on clause 27.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Go ahead, Ms. Duncan.