Evidence of meeting #43 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was point.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Kristen Courtney  Committee Researcher
Clerk of the Committee  Mrs. Guyanne Desforges
Wayne Cole  Procedural Clerk

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

We'll call the meeting to order.

Ms. Duncan.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Mr. Chair, I would like to present a motion.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Yes.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

My motion is:That, pursuant to Standing Order 97.1(1), the Committee requests an extension of thirty sitting days to complete its study of Bill C-469, An Act to establish a Canadian Environmental Bill of Rights.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Okay. Do you want to speak to it?

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As we have not progressed as far as many of us had hoped on the bill, and, as I understand it, the time period will be up very closely when we return from our Christmas break, it is necessary to bring this motion forward so that we can complete the review of the bill.

I'm hoping I will get the support to complete the review of the proposed amendments by members of the committee--unless, of course, miraculously, we complete it today.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Does anybody else want to speak to the motion?

Yes, Mr. Warawa.

December 15th, 2010 / 3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC

Chair, I lament the fact--as many do, I hope, around this table--that we are not working on SARA and haven't for weeks. I would ask Ms. Duncan if she would accept a friendly amendment that this be forwarded on to the House immediately in its unamended form.

She had such confidence--

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

[Inaudible--Editor]...this is the motion.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC

I'm asking her to accept, if she would, a friendly amendment that it be forwarded on to the House immediately, unamended.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

The bill? No, you'd change the intent of the bill. The reason we're extending this....

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB

It's in the motion.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC

Chair--

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

You're asking for....

It's up to you: he's asking if you want to add that as a friendly amendment.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

I don't see that as a friendly amendment, so I'm afraid I can't accept it.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Okay.

So it is not accepted.

Are there any other comments?

We're voting on Linda's motion to extend, pursuant to Standing Order 97.1(1), by 30 sitting days.

All in favour?

(Motion agreed to)

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

When we last met, we were talking about Liberal amendment L-1.2.

The Conservatives had the floor--they had four minutes left--on new subclause 10(2).

Who wishes to speak to it?

Mr. Armstrong.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Armstrong Conservative Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS

I'm just going to finish some of the comments I started at the end of the last meeting.

Despite the amendment, clause 10 of Bill C-469 remains redundant, and given the extent to which access to environmental information is already provided in existing federal statutes and other government initiatives, I believe this amendment does nothing to help that.

I am going to stop my comments at that point.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Mr. Woodworth.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON

I've been trying to just figure out precisely what this amendment does, and I must confess it is eluding me. I don't quite understand what is being proposed that we're not already doing. What is there that this amendment would permit to be disclosed that would not be disclosed under the Access to Information Act?

The implications of this amendment are really rather murky, in my opinion. I don't know, for example, regarding confidentiality, whether or not the Access to Information Act contains an override that would prevent private information from being disclosed under this section or not.

Ordinarily, I like to have all the answers, but in this case, I'm afraid, I'm just asking the questions, because I genuinely don't know the answers.

Thank you.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Are there any other comments?

Seeing none, we're voting on the amendment.

All those in favour of amendment Liberal L-1.2?

(Amendment agreed to)

Now we're speaking to the main clause, which is clause 10.

Mr. Armstrong.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Armstrong Conservative Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS

As discussed in the analysis of the amendment, clause 10 of the bill places an obligation on the Government of Canada to ensure effective access to environmental information by making such information available to the public in a reasonable, timely, and affordable fashion.

This already exists in many other federal statutes involving the environment. For example, the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, 1999, requires the minister to establish a registry for the purpose of facilitating documents relating to matters under this act. The registry has been available online since March 31, 2000, and contains approximately 3,000 documents related to regulations, notices, orders, permits, guidelines, codes of practice, agreements and policies, substances, and enforcement and compliance actions. Information is available to facilitate participation in consultations and decision-making processes under the act. The registry has already received between 34,000 and 164,000 unique visits per month since it was established in 2009.

In a second example, the Species at Risk Act also requires the minister to establish a registry for facilitating access to documents relating to matters under this act. This registry is also online and provides access to over 2,300 documents related to Canada's strategy and legislation for protecting and recovering species, species lists, and information on assets.

A third example of pre-existing legislation that makes this clause redundant is the Canadian environmental sustainability indicators initiative. It was given permanent funding in budget 2010, and provides Canadians with regular information on the state of air quality, greenhouse gas emissions, water quality, water quantity, and protected areas.

A fourth example of redundancy is in the Canadian environmental assessment registry, which was established in 2003. Pursuant to subsection 55(1) of the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act, it is an important source of public information on projects undergoing environmental assessment under this act. The registry aims to help the public find information and records related to current assessments, and provides timely notice about the start of an assessment and opportunities for public participation.

A fifth example of redundancy of this clause is in the Access to Information Act, which applies to information related to environmental statutes. It gives Canadian citizens and permanent residents the right to be given access to or request any record under the control of a government institution. It places an obligation on the head of a government institution to make every reasonable effort to assist a person in connection with the request; respond to the request accurately and completely; and, subject to the regulations, provide timely access to the record in the format requested.

With all of these existing mechanisms in place to share environmental information, it's unclear why this provision is needed in this act.

On a further analysis, it's been indicated that the provision would also oblige government officials to reveal to Canadians the negotiating positions of the government on critical environmental treaties and bilateral agreements. The decision on whether or not a government negotiating position is public should really rest with the responsible minister. This could cause serious issues for us when we go to negotiate international or multinational agreements concerning the environment.

Therefore, I do not support this clause. I believe it's redundant in several situations.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Thank you.

Ms. Duncan.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Clause 10 has been added first and foremost because of concerns about accessing environmental information through the federal government. It's not a new problem, but the recent grade for the Minister of the Environment was an F. So it adds “reasonable, timely and affordable”. There have been concerns about the fees and delay in providing the information.

The very purpose of this provision is to deliver in law on the commitments by the Government of Canada on the right to participate and access to information. It delivers on the North American Agreement on Environmental Cooperation article 1, article 2.1, article 4.1, and article 4.2. In articles 4.1 and 4.2 particularly, Canada commits to advance notice and opportunity to comment on any proposed law and policy. That is why this provision has been added.

Secondly, indeed there are some provisions, specifically in CEPA, but there are many environmental statutes that do not make specific provisions. The intent of this bill is to do an override to ensure access to environmental information by Canadians.

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Thank you.

Mr. Woodworth.