Environment Committee on May 1st, 2012

[Judy Fairburn]

We recognize that the industry has environmental impacts, and we want to minimize those. That is a key belief that we have. So there's a strong commitment to innovation and collaboration to really progress where we're going on the environment, and accelerate our environmental performance. That's our vision: to accelerate improvement in environmental performance.

[Hélène LeBlanc, NDP, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

What was the incentive for companies that are profit-based to do that? What was the incentive? Was it government regulations? Was it provincial regulations on the environment that forced you to do that, or was it just an initiative that was just brought up?

I'm trying to find the timely fashion of this process.

[Judy Fairburn]

We recognize that there is a social licence to operate, and clearly we want to go there. We also know that when you operate in the most environmentally friendly and efficient manner, actually longer term, that also makes great business sense too. I'll give you an example.

My firm, the Weyburn Carbon Dioxide Sequestration Project, is a win-win of helping GHG mitigation and having a more efficient way to recover energy. The same thing goes for a lot of the technologies that are evolving in oil sands. At the very best, say in the technologies that we use in my firm, which is to use wells to recover oil sands from under the ground with minimal disturbance, what you can do is have the most efficiently designed wells and process, and thereby you don't use as much energy, you don't use as much water, and you don't disturb as much land.

There's actually a very synergistic aspect when you push yourself to be more efficient and more environmentally friendly.

[Hélène LeBlanc, NDP, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Okay, I have a two-part question. Who will fund the R and D, and who will benefit from the R and D, the technology that will be coming out of the R and D, as part of the funding. And then who would benefit from the R and D that will be done, eventually?

[Judy Fairburn]

Just for clarity here, COSIA is a strategic planning organization for the environment. What we are doing here is we are saying that we want the minister to accelerate environmental performance.

We are going to put together that road map on how we want to get there. It's actually the companies that are involved in COSIA that are spending the R and D and spending extensive dollars on innovation. For example, Suncor, one of our firms, is investing $1.2 billion to construct infrastructure to move toward avoidance of tailings ponds in the future. So there will be considerable dollars spent by the companies on innovation.

Who benefits? We've looked at all of the companies, who they are involved with and the like, and we can work and find expert solutions across our nation and internationally. In fact, my own firm is working with different universities and a company in Quebec on GHG mitigation advancements. There is no monopoly on best ideas here locally. We really are looking at tapping into the best ideas across Canada and globally. In my mind, that's who benefits.

[Hélène LeBlanc, NDP, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

I would like to come back to the appointment of Mr. Wicklum. Do you find that there is kind of a...? There are two sides to a story. There's the private company that does its job at making profit and going with private goals, and then there's Environment Canada, which is a public service, and which is there to keep a check and balance.

With all the people and all the experts that are there, and there are a lot of scientists—all kinds of scientists—isn't there a problem and a difficulty, then, of credibility when we take someone from Environment Canada on loan for a year, and then they return back to Environment Canada? We're sort of mixing things together.

I would like your comment on that.

[Judy Fairburn]

Sure. As I alluded to in my remarks, an extensive search was done, and the dual qualifications of a scientific background as well as having experience running an innovation entity wasn't an easy combination to find.

Again, COSIA is a science-based organization, and hence we are quite different from Environment Canada. We're not about advocacy, we're not about policy, we're not about enforcement. So very much the job that Dr. Wicklum has is to advance a science agenda. As such, again steps were taken, I'm aware, having been briefed, to really make sure that there was not going to be a problem through the hiring process.

One further thing to add is what I was briefed on was that the intent is for Dr. Wicklum to hopefully stay with our organization.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

Your time has expired.

Madame LeBlanc, welcome to the environment committee. I believe this is your first time here.

[Hélène LeBlanc, NDP, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

We also have a newcomer, and it's Mr. Anderson.

You have seven minutes, and welcome to the environment committee.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate the opportunity to be here. These are important issues for those of us from western Canada, and I'm privileged to be able to speak about them.

I had a question for you, Ms. Fairburn. I've got a statement here, and I wonder if you would agree or disagree with this. If someone were to say they believe that the environment and the economy absolutely go hand in hand and we can work on them both together, is this a statement that you would find acceptable and you would welcome?

[Judy Fairburn]

Absolutely.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Pardon?

[Judy Fairburn]

Absolutely. The environment and good business go definitely hand in hand.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

It's interesting. That's a statement that was made by Megan Leslie, who was the environment critic for the NDP. I'm a little surprised that the NDP aren't more enthused about your initiative. This seems to fit right in with what they would really see as something that's important, as industry that's being responsible environmentally. It seems like that's specifically what this initiative is about.

Is there any practical reason why anyone should oppose what you're doing?

[Judy Fairburn]

I believe that the formation of COSIA is critical. It signals a cultural evolution for our industry. I hope that those in the room there today are getting a feel for that.

Again, I'll draw the parallel that safety was a journey our industry embarked on and crossed probably worldwide a couple of decades ago, and it's significant. We want to make sure that everyone who comes to work knows that their personal safety is critical.

That's the same kind of analogy as how the senior leaders in oil sands feel about the environment. It is critical and integral to our business.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I think maybe that was the point that Ms. LeBlanc was trying to get to as well about the importance of the connection there between the environment and what it is that you're doing.

Mr. Fair, I think Ms. Fairburn mentioned that you're the tailings director. I would like to ask you a little bit about tailings, because tailings ponds and tailings have been a focus of attention for a number of years. Various types of oil sands developments deal with them differently.

I'm wondering, do you have any projects in place dealing with tailings and new technology to deal with that old problem? If so, can you tell us a little bit about that?

[Alan Fair, Interim Director, Tailing Environmental Priority Area, Canada's Oil Sands Innovation Alliance]

In fact we have several. As Judy alluded to earlier, the precursor to the COSIA tailings EPA is a group called the Oil Sands Tailings Consortium. The oil sands industry has actually for some years now been working together. COSIA takes it to a new level where we're collaborating among a broader number of companies, but we are actually commercially implementing some of the technologies that have been developed over the previous years where the oil sands industry has worked together.

Now we have a mechanism to in fact share those from one company to another. There are also a number of other technologies that are being considered. About this time last year we embarked on a cooperative effort with both the provincial and the federal government, an initiative referred to as the tailings road map study. That initiative is targeted to identify a number of potential technologies, whether they be from the companies themselves, from third-party technology developers, or in fact global, beyond Canada's borders, technologies that are being developed in other industries that may have some application in the oil sands.

In fact that report is scheduled to be complete at the end of May. The intent is that for a number of the technologies, the promising technologies in particular, we would focus effort as a consortium to develop those as well. So there are both technologies that are in the midst of being commercially implemented today, but also new technologies we're looking at.

At the end of the day, it will not be one single solution. It will in fact be a suite of technologies that will enable us to improve our performance in terms of tailings management.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Can you touch on one or two of those? What would have changed in the last five or ten years? I know we don't have a lot of time here, but what are you doing differently?

[Alan Fair]

Suncor is an example. Judy alluded to the $1.2 billion commitment they have made in a technology referred to as TRO, tailings reduction operation. That is one example.

Syncrude has made an initial commitment to commercially implement a centrifuging technology, using mechanical means to de-water the oil sands tailings.

Canadian Natural Resources Limited is working with Du Pont to develop a technology relying on a polymer to help flocculate and settle out the tailings faster.

There are additional technologies at the prototype scale. Something we call accelerated de-watering has been piloted on a small scale. Syncrude is embarking on an initiative to pilot this on a much larger scale.

I could go on. I recognize we're short on time, but there are numerous technologies being implemented, both commercially and piloted at a large scale, at the various operations in Fort McMurray.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Okay, so these are not the old-style tailings ponds that we're used to seeing.

I only have a minute and a half or so left. You had mentioned carbon capture and storage. I'm from Saskatchewan. It's a big deal in the Weyburn and Estevan areas, and used for enhanced oil recovery.

Can you talk about your new technology on carbon capture and storage and dealing with the greenhouse gas emissions from some of the new technologies that you're using—SAGDE, steam-assisted gravity drainage, as an example—to extract oil sands material?

[Judy Fairburn]

Indeed, GHG is one of the four priority areas for COSIA. A number of the companies have worked together on what we call an oxy-fuel combustion technique that provides for efficient carbon dioxide capture, along with efficient steam generation. That project is advancing to a fairly large scale and will be in place and operational in the middle of next year. That's a very important project for us, and it shows a direct commitment of oil sands, particularly the in situ side, to really advance GHG mitigation.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

What are you doing to deal with water usage? I know that with some of the new technology you're recycling the water, and you need a lot of water to make the steam work. What are you doing to recycle the water, or do you have any technologies dealing with that? At the natural resources committee we've heard about a lot of those issues, of shale gas and those kinds of things as well.

[Judy Fairburn]

Water is one of the four areas we're looking to accelerate environmental performance on. Great advancements have been made in water usage.

Actually, in some of the leading practices in the operations that use wells, the in situ fresh water is just a small fraction of the water used. Generally what we're doing is taking the water from non-potable sources, from saline, which can't be used for humans. That's the water we're using for production of the steam to recover the oil.

Most of the fresh water used in our facilities is actually for the camps, to support the people who are there. That's a really important progression that we've made to that stage.

The second thing is, yes, recycling is extensive. A range of 80% to 90% of the water is recycled. We're continuing to advance intellectual property. Numerous patents are out there—which again gets to R and D and the innovation going on in this field in the oil sands, of worldwide recognition—to really tighten up that recycling and that use that much more.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

Thank you so much.

Next we have Ms. Duncan. You have seven minutes.