Environment Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2014

[Jim Robb]

No. The consultation is already encoded in law, Mr. Calandra. Your government—

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Could I ask the questions and you answer them?

[Jim Robb]

Sure.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

But in changing and developing this new position of the Province of Ontario, you provided advice. Ontario Nature provided advice. Environmental Defence provided advice. But local citizens did not provide advice. Parks Canada did not provide advice. Farmers did not provide advice. And York Region did not provide advice. But now you're suggesting that one of the guiding principles has to be that stakeholders are brought into this.

I want move forward on this.

[Jim Robb]

Could I answer that question, Mr. Calandra?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

No. I think you've answered it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Mr. Calandra has the floor, but go ahead.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

I think he's answered it to my satisfaction.

You talk about the importance of farming. You say how much you appreciate farmers. Maybe some of the things you've been saying have been taken out of context. The following quote is attributed to you:

farmers are a political constituency that's being catered to, one that takes up 70 per cent, of the park's land in Markham and uses pesticides and genetically-modified crops that can harm the environment.

That's attributed to you. Did you not say that?

[Jim Robb]

Yes, Mr. Calandra, I probably did say that.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

At Markham's Development Services Committee, about three minutes into the meeting, you called our local farmers just industrial cash crop farmers. At four minutes and 24 seconds, you said that you were willing to share the park with the heritage farm community.

What's a heritage farmer?

[Jim Robb]

I think that some of the people who are here today, like Jay Reesor, or many of the other farmers who have been on the land for a long time, could be considered heritage farmers. I think that if we developed a list of people in the park who were expropriated by the Conservative government of Bill Davis, south of 16th Avenue, and by the government of Pierre Trudeau, north of 16th Avenue, we would certainly be willing to give them special provisions to farm at least the equivalent amount of land that they had before the—

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

All right, that's an important point. Suppose I'm a farmer from Stouffville or Mount Albert—or even Mr. Reesor, for that matter, who has been farming since 1985. Let's say the business is called Simpson's Farm Produce, and that it now has a lease in the park. Is that farm a heritage farmer? If it's only been in operation for 10 to 12 years, is it a heritage farm?

[Jim Robb]

Well, I think that we also want to encourage new—

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Yes or no, is that a heritage farmer?

[Jim Robb]

We want to encourage farming by a diversity of people—

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

That's not what I'm asking.

[Jim Robb]

—by heritage farmers, new farmers—

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Would you consider it a heritage farmer?

[Jim Robb]

I really don't know what the definition would be. The heritage farmers I'm thinking of are people who were there when the land was expropriated, because I think they deserve special attention—

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

All right, that's fine.

In this example there are farmers who are from Mount Albert, who come in from Pickering. They weren't expropriated but they hold leases to farm the land on this side. What would happen to them? They're not heritage farmers, as you're suggesting. What would happen to them?

[Jim Robb]

I need to give you a graphic. The Rouge Park in the federal land is five kilometres wide. The ecological corridor is 600 metres wide, so it's less than one-eighth of the park—

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

I'm not asking about the ecological corridor. I'm asking a question specifically in response to your comment. You said that you can share the park with heritage farmers. You've just suggested to me now that a heritage farmer is somebody whose land was expropriated in the 1970s. There are farmers, who come in from Mount Albert and other areas, who were not expropriated, but have leases which have been acquired over the last number of years. I'm asking you what would happen to them. Would they be able to continue farming in the park?

[Jim Robb]

It would have to be on an individual basis. What I would like to say is that you also have to look at the big picture—

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Yes or no. Give me a yes or no. I don't have time—

[Jim Robb]

Yes or no answers don't really provide much information—