Evidence of meeting #35 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site.) The winning word was farming.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
Well, I agree with you. It should be there.
Mr. Buchanan.
4:15 p.m.
Manager, Natural Heritage and Forestry, Environmental Promotion and Protection, Regional Municipality of York
I believe that when you read the legislation you see that it sets the framework for the development of the Rouge Park management plan. The Rouge Park management plan is in place for 10 years. It needs to set the right direction and give examples of objectives and specific measurables.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
But it doesn't define ecosystem health and it doesn't prioritize ecosystem health. Would you agree with that?
4:20 p.m.
Manager, Natural Heritage and Forestry, Environmental Promotion and Protection, Regional Municipality of York
I would agree with that. It does not define a number of other objectives of the park as well, but it's clear to those who managed the park in the past what the improvements in the ecosystem health are intended to be, similarly with agricultural objectives and the other stated objectives.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
It's been a policy of both Markham and York to protect that 600-metre connection between the Oak Ridges Moraine and the park, but it's not part of the plan as presented by the minister. Why is that not part of the park?
4:20 p.m.
Manager, Natural Heritage and Forestry, Environmental Promotion and Protection, Regional Municipality of York
I can't say why it's not. I do know that the park is committed to connectivity when it comes to the linkage from Lake Ontario to the Oak Ridges Moraine and the parameters of that—600 metres. I understand the alignment with the Greenbelt Act—
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
I get “committed to connectivity”. What I don't get is that there is no connectivity to make the connectivity, to make the connection. If I'm committed to connectivity, but there's no connection, then how committed am I to connectivity?
4:20 p.m.
Manager, Natural Heritage and Forestry, Environmental Promotion and Protection, Regional Municipality of York
If I can explain, there are many scientific documents that speak to the width of environmental features that provide or support the function of connectivity. The old comprehensive set of policy statements before the Oak Ridges Moraine act and plan talked about the importance of hedgerows, and certainly the farming community, in terms of wildlife connections, understands the importance of those beyond soil protection.
There are widths for ecological corridors that range from 20 metres to 100 metres to 300 or 600 metres. Connectivity can be achieved. That 600 metres is based on science. There are also, depending on the context, other numbers out there.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht
Thank you, Mr. McKay.
We will move now to Mr. Harris, please, for five minutes.
November 3rd, 2014 / 4:20 p.m.
NDP
Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON
Thank you very much.
I'm going to start on the other suggestion from you, Mr. Wells. Would you mind repeating the other proposed amendment that you made from “may” to “shall”?
4:20 p.m.
Chair, Rouge Park Alliance
I recommended a wording change in clause 8, from “may” to “shall”, so that it reads that the minister “shall” establish a committee to advise the minister. The reason is that there has been a lot of discussion on and commitment to having an advisory committee. In fact there are even charts explaining how the committee would work in the draft plan—who's represented and how it would work.
My experience is long on community development and working with communities, and I think it would be reassuring to the community if the phrase were “shall” instead of “may”. The expectation is there that it will be there; why not ensure that it's there continuously in the act?
4:20 p.m.
NDP
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON
Excellent. I really like the suggestion, and I wouldn't be surprised to see that amendment proposed when the committee moves to that part of the study.
Certainly it was mentioned before, with regard to law enforcement, that there's some reassurance that it will all be under one umbrella. As was mentioned, in a room this big you had all the different enforcement agencies. I think a committee based on the stakeholders to advise and inform the minister would certainly go a long way, and I think it would help to ensure that everyone continues to be a part of the evolution of the urban park.
You're representing the region of York, Mr. Buchanan. Would you support that kind of a change?
4:20 p.m.
Manager, Natural Heritage and Forestry, Environmental Promotion and Protection, Regional Municipality of York
Yes, I would. I see it's supported in the management plan draft. That is certainly a positive.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON
And you think York would want to certainly be a part of that?
4:20 p.m.
Manager, Natural Heritage and Forestry, Environmental Promotion and Protection, Regional Municipality of York
Yes.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
4:20 p.m.
Chair, Altona Forest Stewardship Committee
Yes, I would support it as well. I think it's a really important thing to have happen.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON
I also think, looking at the witness list of everyone who's already been and everyone who will be coming to committee, virtually every single one of those organizations, agencies, individuals, and families would probably want to be a part of that. Of course we'll have to figure out those details later, but I think it's an appropriate kind of change to ensure that we actually improve the bill, because I think there's always room for improvement.
Going back to I guess ecological health, Mr. Buchanan, you were taking about the net improvement. In the context of the Rouge, where you have some areas that have been restored, some areas that are farming, some areas that contain all kinds of different components, I guess the difficulty would be in how you measure a net improvement. On farming, is it improved environmental output so there are less negatives going into the ground and the water? Is it getting more out of that same land without doing damage to it?
Where do you see, on the farming side specifically, how we reach that net improvement? That's where I think ecological damage down the road potentially happens.
4:25 p.m.
Manager, Natural Heritage and Forestry, Environmental Promotion and Protection, Regional Municipality of York
I'm no farming expert. On the ecological side, I know that you typically go with a suite of indicators that give you an indication of the move towards a particular end point. When it comes to farming, I'm not sure if it would be productivity, if it would relate to soil conservation, or if it would relate to some of the environmental parameters, but I'm sure they have many ways in which they can measure improvements for their business.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON
Excellent.
Going back to you, Mr. Wells, you spoke about the on-site team. I do have to agree; I think the on-site Parks Canada team is fantastic and has been doing a great job. I've met with them as well. They are really trying to include as much of the community in the process as possible, even to the point in the last couple of years where they have already had weekend camping trips in the park for neighbourhood kids to get more familiar with it.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht
Mr. Harris, your time is done. We'll have to wait for a response on that.
We have three minutes left until the end of this first hour, and I'll give Ms. Ambler a three-minute time slot.
I'm so generous today.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Stella Ambler Conservative Mississauga South, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all of you for being here today. We really appreciate your comments and expertise in the area.
I would like to give Mr. Noonan the opportunity to answer Mr. Calandra's question with regard to the history of farming on the land, because we do know that first nations have farmed this land for many hundreds of years. Could you give us an idea of the history of farming in the Rouge?
4:25 p.m.
Chair, Altona Forest Stewardship Committee
The research I am doing right now has to do with archeology. I've only talked to a couple of aboriginal members, who really weren't up on the actual farming that was done before, so I am finding out most of that from books and other sources.
As far as the aboriginals are concerned, there is a lot to be learned from some of the sites that haven't been totally explored, like Bead Hill. There is a whole area there that I think we should discuss with aboriginal parties. We should see whether this is one of the sites they were referring to before as a place of learning. I would be totally in favour of doing that, and I think a lot of people in the archeological and educational area would. We could also find a lot of evidence there of what type of farming they were doing and how they were doing it.