Environment Committee on Feb. 8th, 2018

[Duncan Hill]

The mortgage loan insurance refund program has existed since 2010 for the MURBs, I believe, and since in 2012 for the single-family homes. Essentially, CMHC offers up to a 25% refund based on the level of energy performance in new builds and retrofits for energy performance. We coordinate the program with Natural Resources Canada, which provides us with its EnerGuide rating systems. People just need to produce their rating system for their home, and then CMHC and NRCan have a seamless system between the two organizations that allows us to acknowledge the increase in energy efficiency through a mortgage loan insurance rebate.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

The conditions to reach this 25% are determined by very specific eco-energy criteria. Have I understood that properly? I see that I have.

Is this program currently effective? Surely you have amassed some data since 2010. Is there a good claim rate by clients?

[Duncan Hill]

I can provide you with an indication of uptake.

For the multi-unit sector, since 2010 through the early days of 2018, the number of apartment buildings—we call them files—that have been through amounts to 181 projects, and we've refunded close to $7 million. This is across about 17,500 dwelling units. If you take those figures, you'll see that we've provided, per dwelling unit, about a $400 refund for the property owners in those units on that side.

On the single-family homes, between 2012 and 2017 we had 4,200 houses through the system. The total refund was about $5.4 million, which amounts to about $1,200 per application.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Okay.

Madam Chair, is it possible to ask Mr. Hill to provide us with a table containing this data or to give us the source, so that we can have access to this information?

[Duncan Hill]

Certainly.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I will continue along the same lines because I want to put things in perspective.

CMHC is a player, but we need to tackle the problem in a more solid way. I have one last question for you, Mr. Hill.

For us to get an idea of what that represents, do you know how many residences and dwellings there are in Canada? The figures presented are relative because we don't have data on the entire housing stock in Canada.

[Duncan Hill]

Are you referring to the number of houses constructed each year or the total population of the dwelling units?

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I'm talking about the current total number of housing units. In fact, I would like to know the number of buildings, residences and apartments. Do you have that data?

[Duncan Hill]

Yes, we certainly have that information.

In terms of the number of units that are constructed and on the market now, we can include that to provide perspective to the figures that we can give you on the mortgage loan insurance refund project, just to provide perspective to the impact.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you very much.

I would like to finish on this topic. In your presentation, you said that the national strategy will meet the needs of 530,000 households and halve chronic and episodic homelessness. Efforts are being made. CMHC is a player, but we need to adopt broader, more significant and more accessible measures for all Canadians, in terms of residences, industrial buildings and buildings.

I'm trying to demonstrate today that CMHC is an important player. But the problem is much larger and needs to be addressed.

Are there other organizations abroad that are similar to BOMA BEST? What is your position regarding leadership around the globe?

[Benjamin Shinewald]

Since we only have a few seconds, I'd like to answer in English.

In just a few seconds, I'll say that we are the only organization that looks at the operational efficiency in the sense of sustainability efficiency and environmental efficiency for every existing commercial or institutional building on the face of the planet. There are other organizations that will look at different aspects, such as new construction and core and shell, and there are organizations that look only at certain kinds of existing buildings. We are an answer for every commercial and institutional building on the face of the planet.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Thank you very much.

[Randal Froebelius]

Can I add one quick comment?

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Very quick.

[Randal Froebelius]

Many of the members that take advantage of the accreditation system, the program, use it as a training tool as well. It's a web-based system that lets you come back regularly and update it. As you achieve your results, you can update it, and it improves your score. It's a training tool as much as a one-time accreditation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

That's great. Thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. Duncan.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thanks.

I wonder if Mr. Hill could advise us on this. The premium is refunded up to 25%, and what is it based on? If you're more energy-efficient, do you get more back?

[Duncan Hill]

Yes.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Okay. What is the difference between the energy efficiency standards or rating that you do and the national building code?

[Duncan Hill]

On that relationship and what the CMHC uses currently, we spring off a number of different energy efficiency programs that are out there, such as BuiltGreen Alberta and R-2000. We've done the equivalencies between some of the commercial energy efficiency programs and the EnerGuide rating system that NRCan uses. If a person buys a house and it's R-2000 certified, say, that gets them a certain level.

We've done the equivalency across the different commercially available programs that are out there right now. All of those programs are ahead of the building code, so you're not getting an incentive from CMHC to be energy-efficient if you just build to code.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Okay. I would appreciate it if you can explain this to me. By and large, except for individual smaller companies that are building individual homes—we have this big battle in Edmonton about infill, when it is and when it isn't—most of the housing is being built by big companies such as Christenson and, a big leader in Canada, Landmark.

I'm not sure how these two work together: if you get a CMHC mortgage to buy something that is built by one of these builders, where do the energy efficiency standards come in? We have a massive amount of housing being built by major construction firms. It's not like the individual person saying, “I'm going to build a house, and I'm going to be energy-efficient and then get a CMHC mortgage.” How do these work together?

[Duncan Hill]

We largely work through the lending organizations. The lenders, when you're going to get your mortgage loan insurance, would say that you're buying a Landmark home and ask you if you know that they're net-zero ready or some level of performance on the EnerGuide rating scale. The lenders, the mortgage loan professionals, and the real estate agents are the ones who usually make the connections for the buyer if the buyer is not already aware of the availability of the CMHC's incentive to move up the efficiency scale with their purchase.

It's up to a builder to demonstrate that they've met a level of performance. That level of performance is then provided back to the homeowner and CMHC, and the appropriate refund on the mortgage loan insurance is issued. It comes into play in the mortgage loan insurance application process, which arguably is a behind-the-scenes sort of program that consumers don't necessarily come across until they're actually in the homebuying process.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

That's exactly my concern. Do we really still have the tools sufficient to drive that new housing being built in terms of adopting the best energy efficiency that's affordable?

My next questions are for BOMA. It's great to see you again. I used to be on the government operations committee.

[Benjamin Shinewald]

I remember meeting you.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

We had your testimony there, and we had a great report. You told us then that BOMA was actually hired by NRCan to upgrade their buildings according to BOMA rating.

I'm wondering if you could tell me what is going on now with this. We had a terrific report, and we discovered, because of testimony from organizations like yours, how much taxpayers' money could be saved when we're building new federal buildings or retrofitting federal buildings. I wonder if you could speak to that and also to the commercial buildings. I shared with you before that I've heard from the realtors' association in Ottawa, which leases commercial buildings, that they're having a better chance of leasing buildings that are energy-efficient.