Environment Committee on March 22nd, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Thank you.

Mr. Rogers.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you, Ministers, for being here today.

Seven Liberal MPs from Newfoundland and Labrador, indeed every one from our province, complained before, during, and following the 2015 election that Harper's CEA 2012 legislation ignored our offshore oil industry and the role of the C-NLOPB as a life-cycle regulator for our industry.

Can you explain to the committee how this legislation will restore the faith of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians in the offshore exploration regulatory regime?

[Jim Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I'd like to thank the member for the question. I want to let him know how much I am enjoying my visits to Newfoundland and Labrador, including visits to describe the process that led to this legislation, including very important meetings with the industry and others, and including an assessment of the offshore board and the contribution that it has made over the many years that it has been in operation. I am enjoying learning from the advice given to us during the consultation process, which led us to the conclusion that the offshore boards had lots of expertise that should be considered as an important part of environmental impact assessments, and will be, according to this legislation.

We respect the accords. We understand how important they are to Newfoundland and Labrador, and to Nova Scotia.

We consulted, and we heard the advice. That advice can be seen in this legislation, and that advice will be seen as we roll out the implementation of this bill.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you, Minister.

I have a very similar question, but just on another point.

As you said, you were recently in St. John's and speaking to industry leaders in the offshore oil and gas. On the feedback you received from the MPs and the stakeholders, did that result in any provisions in the legislation to address your ministry's obligations under the Atlantic Accord?

[Jim Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

We understand and recognize in the legislation the formal role for the offshore boards, and the expertise that's contained within them. We honour that expertise, we recognize it, and we embedded it in the legislation.

Also, there is the possibility down the road that there will be additional responsibilities for the boards if there is renewable energy generated in the offshore. If it's necessary to amend the accords, with the co-operation and with the leadership of Newfoundland and Labrador, we would be pleased to consider that.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I might just add that it was very useful hearing from the members of Parliament from Newfoundland and Labrador. You expressed strong views. We believe there is an opportunity through the project list, avoiding the need for a separate impact assessment for offshore exploratory drilling activities where a regional assessment has been carried out. We are doing consultations on the project list.

We think that's something we heard, that it was an opportunity to be more efficient, and not reinvent the wheel every time. That was in direct response to good discussions with industry in Newfoundland and Labrador, the government, and also our members of Parliament, so thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

You have two more minutes.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you, Madam Minister. Those are the questions I had.

Can I pass my time to some others?

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Does anybody else have questions over there?

Mr. Bossio.

[Mike Bossio, Liberal, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Ministers, thank you very much for being here this afternoon. I very much appreciate it.

Having gone through provincial terms of reference and the environmental assessments process multiple times, how does Bill C-69 ensure that the IA process is not just one of checking off boxes? You know, consulted with indigenous groups, check; consulted with local residents, check; received technical briefs from opponents, check.... At the end of the day, none of the consultation briefs, in my experience, were taken seriously, or considered or reflected in the final project deciding the design or alternatives.

How does Bill C-69 ensure that all public input is considered, reflected, or acted upon? Does Bill C-69 ensure that the IA process is not simply a checking boxes routine?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I totally agree with you. It can't be about checking boxes but not doing a serious job.

There are a number of measures that we think are extraordinarily important. We talked about the expansion of public participation. That's going to be from the very start, from the early engagement phase. There's the partnership with indigenous peoples.

Transparency is critically important throughout, but especially when you make the decisions. You'll have to actually show how you reflected the factors, what you heard, and how that plays out in the decision you made.

Also, in the monitoring and following up, making sure that if there are conditions associated with the project, communities and indigenous peoples have confidence there is monitoring of the conditions, and that there is follow-up and enforcement of the conditions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Thank you.

Ms. Duncan, you have three minutes.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Chair. I have one very quick question for the Minister of the Environment.

Will this committee and the public receive the project list before our review of Bill C-69 completes, and before third reading proceeds?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

The project list is currently out for consultation. There's certainly a lot of interest in the project list.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Just a yes or no, because I have a second question.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

We're consulting on the criteria for the project list. We believe it's important to have a final project list, ideally at the same time when you have final legislation passing.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I don't hear a yes or a no on that. That's a little discouraging.

We have a dilemma here. To both of the ministers, I know that the government wants to fast-track this bill. We had closure on debate in second reading. We're anticipating that we'll have that in the third reading as well. There's also a lot of stress on this committee to limit who can come forward.

I've heard both ministers over and over saying it's important that everybody have their say. Who would you suggest that we not invite to testify before us from the first nations communities?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I certainly have great confidence in this committee. I have great confidence in the chair that you will make decisions about who you should be consulting with.

We are also meeting on a regular basis with the national indigenous organizations. We have made that commitment to them.

We think it is very important that you hear from the people you believe have the expertise and can support the committee's work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

You have one more minute.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I'd still like an answer to my first question, so that we know if we have any substance to our review. There's no substance to this act until we know the project list. Will it include in situ, and will it include dangerous rail cargo?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Back to your point about consultations, I think it's critically important that we hear from folks about the criteria for the project list. That is exactly why we are consulting on the criteria for the project list right now. We know there's a lot of interest in that, and we're very interested in getting the report on what people have said.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

We don't know if we will have the list or not.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I'll pass this over to Ron Hallman from the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency.

[Ron Hallman]

Right now, as the minister indicated, we're consulting on criteria for the types of activities that would go on the project list. We anticipate that after we receive the input that we're getting, we would have a proposed list for further public consultation very early in the fall.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I might just add that this is very different from the previous government where there were absolutely no consultations. It was a political decision about the project list.