Environment Committee on May 12th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I will call this meeting to order.

Before we start, I imagine that I have the consent of the committee and of the House of Commons resources to do a full two hours. That would take us to 6:43 p.m. I don't imagine there are any objections to this. We're just adapting to the previous votes.

We're meeting today to look at the main estimates for 2021-22.

I think everyone here knows the drill for how meetings operate, especially in this virtual space. You can use the language of your choice, of course. When not speaking, put your mike on mute. Please address the meeting through the chair.

Minister Wilkinson, welcome once again to our committee. I know that you're coming to see us again on Monday. I think we'll make you an honorary member of the committee at some point.

As well as the minister, we have, from the Department of the Environment and Climate Change, Christine Hogan, deputy minister; and Linda Drainville, assistant deputy minister, corporate services and finance branch.

From the Impact Assessment Agency of Canada, we have David McGovern, president. From Parks Canada, we have Ron Hallman, president and chief executive officer; and Catherine Blanchard, vice-president, finance directorate.

I believe you have opening statements, Minister.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, Minister of Environment and Climate Change]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

I'm pleased to be with you today to discuss the 2021-22 main estimates for Environment and Climate Change Canada, the Parks Canada Agency and the Impact Assessment Agency of Canada.

I am joining you today from beautiful north Vancouver, which is on the traditional ancestral and unceded territories of the Squamish, Tsleil-Waututh and Musqueam first nations.

As the chair noted, I am accompanied by a number of officials who will assist me as required.

Since we last met, the government has remained focused on safeguarding the health of Canadians. We've also been focused on laying the groundwork to build a healthier environment and a healthier economy.

The economic recovery that will follow this pandemic will be defined by the global transition to a low-carbon economy. This is an opportunity that Canada cannot miss.

Over the course of the last number of weeks and months, our government has delivered on key commitments to address the twin threats of climate change and biodiversity loss. We unveiled an ambitious but achievable target to reduce our emissions by 40% to 45% by 2030. Our target is supported by a detailed, strengthened climate plan containing over 64 new measures and billions of dollars in new investments.

To ensure that this government and future governments are held to account on climate action, we have put forward Bill C-12, the Canadian Net Zero Emissions Accountability Act. I look forward to this committee’s consideration of the Bill and remain open to constructive amendments that will strengthen the legislation.

Further, through Budget 2021 we are investing an historic $4 billion to ensure we protect 25% of our land and water by 2025 and 30% of each by 2030, and that we protect species at risk.

We are moving forward with a comprehensive agenda to eliminate plastic pollution, including a ban on harmful single-use plastics, making producers responsible for their plastic waste and developing minimum recycled content standards for products. These measures will drive a circular economy for plastics, representing a significant environmental and economic opportunity that will reduce greenhouse gases and create thousands of new jobs.

We've also introduced the first substantive update to Canada's cornerstone environmental protection legislation, CEPA, in over 20 years. Bill C-28 will recognize, for the first time in federal law, Canadians' right to a healthy environment. It will better protect Canadians and the environment from toxic substances.

With regard to the main estimates, total authorities for Environment and Climate Change Canada in 2021-22 amount to just under $1.7 billion. While this appears to be a decrease relative to 2020-21, this difference is, in part, due to delays in the rollout of the low-carbon economy fund as a result of COVID-19, as well as delays in submitting proposals by provinces and territories. This funding will be re-profiled into future years to ensure provinces and territories can access all funds that have been committed and approved.

Additionally, the climate incentive fund and the chemicals management plan both had fixed start and end dates by design. These programs came to their scheduled end dates. However, the CMP was renewed in budget 2021 and other investments were also announced in the budget. Subject to parliamentary approval, these decisions will be reflected in future estimates.

It is expected that funding for Environment and Climate Change Canada will increase in subsequent estimates due to budget 2021 investments.

For Parks Canada, the Agency’s Main Estimates for 2021-22 are approximately $1.129 billion, which represents an increase of $26.1 million when compared to the previous year. This increase is primarily due to the ratification of collective agreements.

For new funding, the largest item is $222.1 million to support capital assets in Canada’s national parks, conservation areas and historic sites.

For the Impact Assessment Agency, the main estimates total $79 million, which represents a $2.5-million increase compared to the 2020-21 main estimates. That difference is primarily due to an increase in the agency's grants and contributions to support public and indigenous participation.

As I noted at the beginning of my remarks, our government's top priority remains supporting Canadians through the pandemic, but we recognize that we need to look toward the future and lay the groundwork for a sustainable recovery. We have made significant progress, and many of these initiatives are captured in these main estimates.

I look forward to discussing them with you today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

We now begin the first round of questions. Four speakers will have six minutes each.

Mr. Redekopp, the floor is yours.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Welcome, Mr. Wilkinson, to you and to all on your team. Thanks for coming.

You know, of course, that today is the day the Michigan governor has ordered for the shutdown of the Enbridge Line 5 pipeline that moves half of the gasoline from Ontario and Quebec. Your colleague, Minister of Natural Resources O'Regan, has stated that it would take the equivalent of 800 rail cars and 2,000 carbon-emitting trucks per day to move the same amount of gasoline. He also personally vowed to fight to keep the pipeline open.

I have a simple question to start with. As the environment minister, will you also personally vow to fight to keep Enbridge Line 5 operating? Yes or no?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

The government has been very clear on this. We are very supportive of Line 5. We are working very hard, through all kinds of channels—Minister O'Regan, the Prime Minister himself, Ambassador Hillman, Minister Garneau and a whole range of folks—so the government's position has been very clear on this.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Would you say that's your position, too, as the Minister of the Environment?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Well, I would say it's the position of the government. I'm a minister in the government and I support the government's position—of course.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Do you see any irony in this, that the government is fighting very hard to keep the Enbridge Line 5 operating but not fighting at the same level for Keystone XL? How do you explain that?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

The first thing I would say is that this is actually supposed to be about the main estimates and I'm not entirely sure how this line of questioning is related to the main estimates, but the government was also very supportive of Keystone. It raised the issue on a number of occasions with the Government of the United States. That is something that was discussed very early on and, certainly, there are conversations that will continue to be had.

We're talking about Line 5. That is a critical issue right now, and it is something we are advocating for very strongly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I tend to agree. It doesn't seem to relate to the main estimates.

You have a good four minutes left, Mr. Redekopp.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you.

Line 5 clearly does. It's part of the.... Anyway, let's move on to budget 2021.

You claimed to include some spending to put Canada on pace to achieve a 36% emissions reduction by 2030. Just a few days later, Prime Minister Trudeau promised Joe Biden that Canada would achieve a 40% to 45% reduction.

I'm just curious. Was that a typo in the budget? Should the budget have said “40% to 45%”?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

That was not a typo in the budget.

The focus of the efforts globally on climate obviously need to be informed by science. This government believes in science and evidence-based policy-making. Science tells us that we need to be more ambitious going forward. You saw that reflected in the commitments that were made not only by Canada, but by Japan, by the European Union, by the United Kingdom and by the United States of America at the Earth Summit a couple of weeks ago.

We have defined a pathway to 36% thus far. We have continuing work to do. We have nine years through which to actually ensure that we're doing that work, although obviously some of that work needs to be done over the next few years. There are certainly areas where we can do more. I think Canadians would think we were all a bit crazy, irrespective of party, if we said, well, we have 36% in the bank and we're done, even though it doesn't align with what the science tells us we must do on climate.

Yes, we have greater ambition and we need to do some more work, and that's what Canadians would expect us to do.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

It just seems a little puzzling. I get what you're saying, but why didn't the budget just say 40% to 45%? If that was what was baked into the budget, wouldn't that have been the number that would have been specified?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

No, the budget said with the investments that were made in the budget, and the tax measures that were introduced, we believe, we are at 36%. That's based on all the modelling we've done and all the initiatives that are currently under way, or that we have announced that we will be doing. That means there still is a 4% to 9% area that is going to need additional work, and that means the next budget and the one after are going to have to make climate change a priority. That's what Canadians would expect: continuing ambition to try to align ourselves with the science.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

I'm curious. Did you have meaningful input into your boss's decision to arbitrarily raise this target from 40% to 45%, or are you making this up as you go along?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

I've been working on this for a long time. Certainly the Prime Minister and I and all my cabinet colleagues have had many conversations about this. I had similar conversations with my provincial and territorial counterparts, and we developed a range we felt was ambitious, but attainable. I believe the 40% to 45% is both ambitious and attainable. Again, that's what Canadians would expect us to do: to reach, to stretch, to be in line with the science, and to ensure that we are moving forward in a manner that is addressing climate change for the crisis that it is, and putting Canada in a place where it can seize the economic opportunities that are enabled by the transition to a low-carbon future.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

On a different subject, your government has often spoken about businesses needing to retool in the new economy, and workers needing to retrain, often in the context of oil and gas. I was shocked to hear from a company in the clean-tech sector that's facing the same problem. New regulations coming into effect shortly will require that emission controls be added to industrial engines prior to their arriving in Canada.

Safety Power in Mississauga adds emission controls after these engines arrive in Canada, and its products are world-leading and result in lower emissions than the regulations require, yet the new regulations will take away its ability to sell its products in Canada.

When you develop new regulations such as in this case, do you challenge your officials as to the possible economic consequences of their going into effect?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Of course we do. When you're moving forward to try to put regulatory mechanisms in place, you're thinking about how you would advance the environmental efficacy of these products. At the end of the day, what we're talking about here is enhancing the requirements on engine manufacturers with respect to the pollution that's produced through the engines.

What you're talking about is an after-market solution. Certainly, we are bringing ourselves into alignment in terms of reducing air pollution such as nitrous oxide. We're bringing ourselves into alignment with many countries around the world, including the United States, which is requiring engine manufacturers to become cleaner.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

These are good, clean-tech jobs in Canada, though.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay, we have to go on to Mr. Baker, who I believe is splitting his time with Ms. Saks.

Mr. Baker.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thanks very much, Chair. That's correct, I'll be sharing my time with Ms. Saks.

Minister, thank you very much for being here today to speak with the committee.

My constituents in Etobicoke Centre are understandably very concerned about the impact of climate change. They expect us, as a government, to do what's necessary to protect our planet. To do so, they expect the Government of Canada to ensure that we reduce our emissions in Canada and globally to the degree necessary to achieve that objective.

Our government has made substantial investments, including in budget 2021, towards a green recovery, to create middle-class jobs, build a clean economy, and fight and protect against climate change. Could you summarize for us what emission-reduction targets our government has committed to, and to what degree this would reduce our emissions? What legislative measures will we pass to ensure this government and future ones will live up to these commitments?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

As you know very well, climate change is both an existential threat to humanity and a massive economic opportunity for countries that move early and aggressively. When our government took office five years ago, Canada's emissions were going the wrong way. We were on track to be 12% higher in 2030 than emissions were in 2005. We developed Canada's first national climate plan in 2016, and brought forward a further-strengthened climate plan last December that provides a very detailed pathway for Canada to exceed its initial Paris Agreement target. That plan represented one of the most detailed climate plans that exists around the world, but we knew we needed to do more. Budget 2021 made significant additional investments in that regard.

In April, alongside the Prime Minister and with the United States, the United Kingdom, the European Union and Japan, we announced that Canada would commit to reducing emissions to 40% to 45% below 2005 levels by 2030, which is an increase of up to 50% from Canada's previous target. To keep all future governments accountable, we are also moving forward with a net-zero accountability act to enhance accountability and introduce five-year binding targets.

The bottom line is that these targets are not just ensuring a healthier environment. It's a plan to build a cleaner and more competitive economy for generations to come.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thanks, Minister.

Minister, I know we're about two minutes and a bit into our questions, and I'm sharing the time with Ms. Saks, so I'll be brief.

In December, our government announced its strengthened climate plan to accelerate the fight against climate change. Can you provide us an update on the investments we've made since the release of the strengthened climate plan?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

As you know, in the strengthened climate plan there were a whole range of things around ZEV infrastructure and grants for home retrofits, but subsequent to the plan and incorporated into the budget was another $17.6 billion. There was $4.4 billion for interest-free loans for home retrofits, and another $5 billion for the net-zero accelerator to ensure that we're working with large emitters to help them implement technology that will buy down emissions. We also announced an additional $15 billion for public transit investments in Canada. I think there was a big announcement in Ontario just yesterday on a number of major public transit announcements. We're going to continue to do what we need to do to make the progress we need to make.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I'm assuming it now goes to Ms. Saks.