Evidence of meeting #32 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was targets.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Kristina Michaud  Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, BQ
Douglas Nevison  Assistant Deputy Minister, Climate Change Branch, Department of the Environment
John Moffet  Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
Samuel Millar  Director General, Corporate Finance, Natural Resources and Environment, Economic Development and Corporate Finance, Department of Finance
Christie McLeod  Articling Student, As an Individual
Claudel Pétrin-Desrosiers  Resident Physician and President, Association québécoise de médecins pour l'environnement
Reynold Bergen  Science Director, Beef Cattle Research Council, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
Alan Andrews  Climate Program Director, Ecojustice
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Angela Crandall
Andrew Gage  Staff Counsel, West Coast Environmental Law Association
Fawn Jackson  Director, Policy and International Relations, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
Courtney Howard  Emergency Physician and Planetary Health Researcher and Policy Worker, Canadian Association of Physicians for the Environment

3:20 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

It's absolutely not redundant. At the end of the day, we would like to see an expert advisory panel, or an expert advisory body, that plays a part in advising all future governments. The ministerial panel is not part of the legislation. It is an advisory body that advises the minister.

As I said before, once the legislation passes through Parliament, these become Governor in Council appointments, and they are subject to the same kinds of things, which include requiring changes to the law to actually amend this.

At the end of the day, this is intended to be a forcing function on all future governments to ensure that they take climate action seriously.

May 17th, 2021 / 3:20 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Minister, Bill C-28, the CEPA bill, refers to the right to a healthy environment that “may be balanced with relevant factors, including social, economic, health and scientific factors”.

Would you support adding similar language to this bill to ensure that, when setting targets and creating plans, reductions are balanced with social and economic factors in mind?

3:20 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

Again, I am not the master of the committee. You folks are going to have to have discussions and decide what you think—

3:20 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

But it is your legislation, Minister, so please answer the question.

3:20 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

—is appropriate. What I would say to you is that the issue of targets is a science issue. At the end of the day, you either believe in science or you don't.

3:20 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Don't you believe that there are relevant factors?

3:20 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

The focus needs to be on ensuring that we actually understand what science tells us we need to do to ensure that this world is a livable world, and on doing that in a manner that takes into account the economic and social in terms of how we actually make the progress. That's exactly what the ministerial body is supposed to do.

3:20 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Minister, it seems strange to me that you're okay with a balance in your Canadian Environmental Protection Act bill, but not this one. Do you not agree that striking a balance is important?

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Answer very quickly, Minister.

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

What I would say to you is this: Do you believe in climate change or not?

3:25 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Yes but I'm asking you—

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

If you do, then at the end of the day—

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Order, please.

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

At the end of the day, to have a livable world in the future, you must have a net-zero world by 2050. That's the bottom line. At the end of the day, you either believe that or you don't.

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

We're going to have to—

3:25 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Minister, that's a terrible answer. I really wish you'd come to actually speak to these issues. There are people in this country who are looking for leadership, not just of one particular ideology but to see themselves included in the legislation.

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

That's not an ideology. My goodness—

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Minister and Mr. Albas, order please. I don't have control of mute, apparently, so I can't do much about this.

We'll now go to Ms. Saks.

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

Ya'ara Saks Liberal York Centre, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Wilkinson, for joining us today. I thank you for your leadership in getting Bill C-12 to committee because it is certainly an important issue for Canadians.

One of the top issues of concern for my constituents here in York Centre is climate change, and they do know that it's real and the science behind it. They're seeing the dangerous trajectory Conservatives put us on when they were in government, and they understand that failing to take action on the climate crisis is not only detrimental to our environment but also to the economy.

Minister, can you discuss what the economic and environmental risks to Canada are and would be if we don't move forward with our net-zero legislation?

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

Thank you. I certainly agree. When our government took office, as I said, five years ago, Canada's emissions were going very much the wrong way, and they would have been 12% higher by 2030 versus 2005.

Both the international Paris Agreement and the Canadian net-zero emissions accountability act recognize the importance of limiting global warming to 1.5°C. According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, global human-caused C02 emissions must reach net zero around 2050 to achieve 1.5°C.

Canadians are already experiencing the significant impacts of a changing climate. Canada is actually changing at twice the average rate around the world, and in the north, it's three times. There are enormous impacts of that. The Bank of Canada found that climate change could cost the economy between $21 billion to $43 billion a year by 2050 if no action is taken. The Insurance Bureau of Canada has put out its own set of figures, and we've all seen some of the extreme weather events around Fort McMurray and in B.C. with respect to forest fires. This is real. It is happening. It's a science issue. It's not a debate; it's a science issue. These effects are expected to intensify in the future.

Already, there's a lot of global momentum, and 120 countries have adopted this science-based target. Canada has an opportunity to address the potential impacts of climate change to ensure that we're moving towards an economy that will provide the products and services that people in a low-carbon world are going to want, and to ensure that we can actually have a prosperous economy that will sustain and grow good middle-class jobs. That's the focus of this bill.

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

Ya'ara Saks Liberal York Centre, ON

Thank you, Minister. Both for my constituents and myself as a mother, I can say that it's an important moment right now to change our habits in order to improve our environment and also our economy.

I'd like to ask another question. The understanding is that this bill will enable us to move forward and seize the opportunities of a low-carbon economy. Minister, can you expand on the transparency aspect of the bill?

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

Yes. That's at the heart of what this bill is trying to achieve. In addition to setting us on the right path to achieve net zero, it builds a system that's going to be more transparent and forces governments to be more accountable.

In terms of transparency, the act will require the Minister of Environment and Climate Change to table in Parliament an emissions reduction plan, a progress report and assessment reports for each target. It will require the Minister of Finance, working with the Minister of Environment and Climate Change, to publish an annual report respecting key measures that the federal public administration has taken to manage its financial risks related to climate change. It provides a mandate for the Government of Canada to describe all of the actions it will take in order to actually achieve a missed target. It also provides for public participation, both through the net-zero advisory body and a range of other mechanisms.

It, as I said, provides significant transparency and accountability. I've already outlined in my opening remarks some of the areas where we're open to going further, and I look forward to the deliberations that the committee will have.

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

Ya'ara Saks Liberal York Centre, ON

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Chair, those are all the questions I have for the moment.

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Thank you.

We knew ahead of time that the minister would be with us for one hour. It's right up to one hour now.

Minister, thank you for being here to talk about the bill and answer questions about the bill.

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

Thank you, everybody.