Evidence of meeting #4 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was supply.
A recording is available from Parliament.
President, Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association
Was that on the feasibility of the engines?
Conservative
President, Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association
No, the CVMA has not done a study on those engines.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
We were also told that there has yet to be any engagement with industry partners on the development of regulations for heavy-duty vehicles despite the call for the creation of a working group that would aim to develop a plan for decarbonization of the trucking industry.
Do you think that a working group with industry would be the best approach for creating regulations for heavy-duty vehicles?
President, Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association
We are always 100% supportive of engagement with industry when that type of regulation is being developed. So yes, absolutely, we would be open to those discussions, and any sort of industry consultation.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
I take it then, judging by your answer, you haven't yet had any of those conversations.
President, Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association
I'm not aware of that at this point.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
Zero-emission vehicles start at approximately $40,000, give or take.
Would you agree that the average cost of a zero-emission vehicle would make it difficult for the average Canadian to participate in the government's current program to purchase these vehicles?
President, Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association
Absolutely. That's why consumer incentives are so critically important. Until we reach a point where there's price parity between a zero-emission vehicle and an ICE vehicle—an internal combustion engine—you need consumer incentives to bring the price down so that average Canadians can afford it and see this vehicle as fitting their needs for the same price as the car they would typically buy.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
To your knowledge, are there any timelines for when more affordable zero-emission vehicles will be available in Canada?
President, Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association
Yes. There have been a number of studies done. Most point to the late 2020s for achieving price parity. That's when you'll see battery technology advancing to a point where the cost is the same.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Thank you very much.
Committee members, I was remiss. You got the notice, but I did not let you know that we have scheduled 10 minutes for committee business. At 10 minutes to six, we will go into committee business.
Next is Mr. Francis Scarpaleggia.
Mr. Scarpaleggia, you have six minutes.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to continue with a remark that Mr. Kingston made.
You mentioned a year when battery technology would be equal to...but it wasn't quite clear. You were basically saying that this would be cost-effective by a certain date, but can you explain that a little more? Could you go back to your last statement and elaborate on it?
President, Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association
Absolutely, yes.
A number of studies are looking at the different technology development spectrums and when an electric vehicle that is using battery technology will reach price parity with an ICE vehicle, that is, with a traditional combustion engine. Now, technology can sometimes take leaps and bounds, so it's always difficult to pinpoint exactly when you'll reach that price parity, but a study that was commissioned by ISED and done by an organization called CAR, out of Detroit, put that date in the late 2020s.
Liberal
President, Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association
No. I'm sorry. It's the late 2020s.
President, Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association
Yes, anywhere between 2025 and 2030. In multiple studies, that seems to be the wheelhouse.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
Right. Basically, what it sounds like is that—and maybe this is obvious to someone in the industry—the cost differential is all because of the battery.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
Okay. That's interesting.
I think it was Mr. Bradley who talked about rules around metering. This is the first time that I've heard this issue raised. It never occurred to me that metering was an issue. You would think that it's pretty objective, that it tells you how much electricity you're using and that's that. Could you elaborate on this issue of needing to “upgrade” the rules around metering? I think that's the way you put it. What are you referring to there?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Electricity Association
Certainly. Thank you very much for the opportunity to touch on that.
As I said, this is maybe not as interesting. It's more down in the weeds, but these are the sorts of things that will have to be addressed for us to be effective over the longer term. We essentially have a regulatory regime that was designed for the 1960s. An electric vehicle future in the late 2020s is going to look very different.
We have rules which essentially say that an electric meter is something that we're very used to seeing. They sit on the wall of a building. There are specific rules about what that needs to look like and how it needs to operate. Effectively, we need to look at how we can look at new metering technology and how the vehicles themselves can be recognized potentially as a rolling meter. Also, there are things like multi-dwelling environments, where you're plugging in electric vehicles in garages. That's shared space. We do not have rules in terms of how we can share a meter down in the garage for condos and apartments.
Those are just some of the things. We have provided the clerks some additional information and some very specific changes that we're recommending to both of those pieces of legislation.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
When you mention sharing a meter, do you mean that more than one vehicle plugs into the same outlet and therefore you have to decide how to charge each vehicle owner?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Electricity Association
Yes, that's correct. Right now, in theory, for fairness, every electric vehicle is much like every street lamp, which is another separate but very similar issue. Every street lamp has a meter. It is metered. We're in the world of LEDs, where the use of electricity by an LED street lamp is so small that today you can't justify the cost of a meter on each and every one of those, because so much less electricity is being used today than when we originally figured out that technology and began using it.
It's a question of a technology that has moved much faster than the regulations. On the technical end of things, we're going to need to sort out some regulations as well, so that they are not a barrier to further adoption of zero-emission vehicles.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
Is someone working on regulatory reform in this respect?