Evidence of meeting #4 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was supply.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Alexandre Roger
Francis Bradley  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Electricity Association
Travis Allan  Vice-President, Public Affairs and General Counsel, AddÉnergie Technologies Inc.
Brian Kingston  President, Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association
Joanna Kyriazis  Senior Policy Advisor, Clean Energy Canada
Alison Clegg  Committee Researcher

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Welcome to meeting number four of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development. The committee is meeting today to continue its study of zero-emission vehicles. The meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of September 23, 2020.

Since members are familiar with the hybrid process, I will proceed to welcome the witnesses. We have with us the following witnesses: Travis Allan, vice-president, public affairs and general counsel, AddÉnergie Technologies Inc.; Francis Bradley, president and chief executive officer, Canadian Electricity Association; Brian Kingston, president, Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association; and Joanna Kyriazis, senior policy advisor, Clean Energy Canada.

We have received opening remarks from three of the witnesses, which have been translated and circulated to members. We have one that has not been translated because it arrived late.

Alexandre, which was the one we didn't receive?

4:05 p.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Alexandre Roger

It was from the Canadian Electricity Association.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

We haven't received anything from the Canadian Electricity Association, so I would ask Brian Kingston to speak for at least three minutes to give the committee an idea of your focus so that members can ask appropriate questions.

Mr. Kingston, the floor is yours, and—

4:05 p.m.

Bloc

Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC

Madam Chair, I have a point of order.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

What is the reason for your point of order, Ms. Pauzé?

4:05 p.m.

Bloc

Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC

The meeting started a half-hour late. Does that mean the meeting will be extended by 30 minutes? Votes are commonly held in the House on Mondays, which cuts into the committee's meeting time. I think that's terrible. Are we going to extend the meeting a bit? Before the witnesses start their presentations, I think we should know how much time we're working with.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

That's a good question, Ms. Pauzé.

It depends on whether or not I get unanimous consent to extend the committee meeting by half an hour. We have faced this situation throughout, whether with a minority or majority government.

Do we have unanimous consent to do that?

Mr. Albas, are you going first?

November 2nd, 2020 / 4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

No. I just have a quick question before you ask for unanimous consent. If we add the extra half hour, does that mean that we'll hear opening statements from more witnesses?

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

No. You will get the opportunity to ask more questions.

Do I have unanimous consent to extend the meeting? I don't want to waste time. Those who do not agree, please say “nay”.

Thank you. We are in agreement.

Mr. Kingston, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.

4:10 p.m.

The Clerk

Ms. Chair, I'm sorry to interrupt.

Mr. Bradley is the witness from the electricity association, not Mr. Kingston.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Okay, sorry. Maybe I was reading it in reverse.

Mr. Bradley.

4:10 p.m.

Francis Bradley President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Electricity Association

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Good afternoon to the committee members.

CEA, the Canadian Electricity Association, is the national voice of electricity. Our members operate in every province and territory. The association includes generation, transmission and distribution companies.

Canada's electricity system employs 81,000 Canadians. We contribute $30 billion to Canada's GDP. Indirectly, our sector supports every job and industry in Canada. Electricity is the foundation of the modern economy. It's also at the heart of Canada's transition to low carbon. Over 80% of Canada's electricity generation is already non-emitting, making it one of the cleanest grids in the world. In fact, the Canadian electricity sector has already reduced GHG emissions by more than 40% since 2005.

The availability of clean, reliable power will play an essential role as Canada begins to decarbonize through electrification. Our sector is uniquely positioned to help advance Canada's clean energy future and meet climate commitments in 2030, 2050 and beyond. In fact, CEA released a list of actions for achieving net-zero carbon emissions, which we've provided to the clerk for your reference.

Electrification of vehicles will play an important part in Canada's reaching its climate change targets. Light-duty vehicles represent 12% of Canada's overall GHG emissions, and with focused action we believe that we can reduce that to near zero. But to do so, there are several actions that governments must take. We believe that the government has done a good job thus far in encouraging EV adoption by providing purchase incentives and charging infrastructure. The electricity sector supports these measures wholeheartedly. Electricity companies have been active participants in building charging in and between communities.

Alas, it's not enough to just help people buy EVs and to install more chargers. These might be the exciting visible parts, but we can't forget about the foundations of the system. For EVs, that means modernizing the rules around electricity metering and making sure that the distribution infrastructure can support this growth. Canada's legislation on electricity metering dates from before the Internet, basically since the last time we had a Prime Minister Trudeau. As written now, overly prescriptive acts such as the Electricity and Gas Inspection Act and the Weights and Measures Act stifle innovative metering technology, and in turn they impede the commercial deployment of technologies dependent upon these. Outdated metering legislation holds back further deployment of charging infrastructure in public and in multi-residential dwellings.

We have to ensure that the grid is ready for electric vehicles. It's not so much a question of making sure there's enough electricity. In fact, EV charging offers the opportunity to take advantage of power surpluses overnight and at other peak times, but at the hyperlocal level, an increase in EVs will need to be supported by upgrades to the local distribution infrastructure, such as feeders and transformers. Even a handful of EVs on a single street could require upgrades beyond what is currently in place.

I've talked about light-duty cars and trucks, and while electrification of these vehicles would represent a substantial carbon reduction, they are only part of Canada's transportation sector. Other parts—long distance trucking, marine uses and aviation—seem to require solutions other than batteries, and hydrogen may be a solution for these functions. Canada's electricity sector looks forward to the upcoming release of Canada's hydrogen strategy. Our sector is optimistic about the opportunity of low- or no-carbon hydrogen to reduce emissions. From our perspective, hydrogen made with non-emitting electricity is basically electrification.

Thank you for the opportunity to be with the committee today.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Thank you very much.

Committee members, if I didn't mention it, the opening statement by Mr. Bradley, once translated into French, will be sent to you. The rest of the opening remarks are deemed read and public, so they'll be in the committee evidence.

[See appendix—Remarks by Travis Allan]

[See appendix—Remarks by Brian Kingston]

[See appendix—Remarks by Joanna Kyriazis]

With that, the first round of questions goes to Mr. Redekopp.

I understand you're sharing your time with Mr. Jeneroux. If that's an incorrect understanding, you can correct me.

You have six minutes, Mr. Redekopp.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses for being here today and especially for giving us your remarks ahead of time. That's very helpful.

My first question is for AddÉnergie and Mr. Travis Allan.

On Friday of last week, you announced an investment of $53 million in charging stations, which included federal government money from the Business Development Bank of Canada and Export Development Canada.

Could you please let me the total federal contribution out of that $53 million?

4:15 p.m.

Travis Allan Vice-President, Public Affairs and General Counsel, AddÉnergie Technologies Inc.

Thank you very much for having us here today.

That is correct. We were very pleased to announce our series-C financing round for our company on Friday. This included both an equity contribution, and a financing round that was led by an investment bank out of Montreal with federal participation. There was also some debt financing from National Bank.

I'm not able to provide the specifics of the EDC and BDC contribution. However, I am able to note that they were a significant part of the investment. We are, frankly, very delighted to have that federal support—

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK

Sorry for interrupting, but over the years, have you been subsidized by the government in other ways through grants and loans?

4:15 p.m.

Vice-President, Public Affairs and General Counsel, AddÉnergie Technologies Inc.

Travis Allan

Yes, federal incentives have played an important role in the development of our market. One of the most notable examples is NRCan, which has provided important support for charging station deployment across Canada through the EVAFID and other programs.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK

Has AddÉnergie been able to make a satisfactory profit to this point?

4:15 p.m.

Vice-President, Public Affairs and General Counsel, AddÉnergie Technologies Inc.

Travis Allan

AddÉnergie is a private corporation, and does not disclose its financial specifics. However, we have experienced very substantial revenue growth, particularly in the last two years, which has been attractive to a couple of major institutional and government investors.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK

In your view, can companies like yours generate satisfactory profits without government subsidies and loans?

4:15 p.m.

Vice-President, Public Affairs and General Counsel, AddÉnergie Technologies Inc.

Travis Allan

Yes, absolutely.

We're currently still at an early stage of adopting electric vehicles and charging infrastructure, but there is ample opportunity to develop profitable business models, both on the network deployment of EV charging stations and on the manufacturing of charging stations.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK

Mr. Kingston, on your website it says, “An effective carbon pricing policy applicable to the auto sector must...ensure that revenues paid are fully returned to companies for reinvestment in innovation”. In your opinion, does the current federal carbon tax fulfill your organization's goals for carbon pricing policy?

4:15 p.m.

Brian Kingston President, Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association

Not completely. There are opportunities to recycle federal carbon tax revenues to companies to put in place effective carbon abatement programs and efficiencies at both manufacturing facilities and other operations. There are good examples of companies investing in that. The more of those funds that get recycled through to a company once they've been paid, the greater the speed of innovation you'll see at a facility to reduce overall emission outputs.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK

Madam Chair, I'll turn it over to Mr. Jeneroux.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB

My questions are also for Mr. Kingston.

At our last meeting we were told by the government departments that no internal studies had been done on the feasibility of zero-emission heavy-duty engines.

Has your association done any studies or reviews on this?