Evidence of meeting #4 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was supply.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:25 p.m.
Senior Policy Advisor, Clean Energy Canada
This is the direction the world is going in. Let's prepare our auto sector to capture that economic benefit.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
I want to go back to Mr. Kingston. We were talking about the carbon tax. I believe what you told me was that the current carbon tax doesn't totally match organizations' goals. In your view, what aspects of the current carbon tax need to be changed to align more closely with your organization statement?
5:25 p.m.
President, Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association
The main element is making sure that manufacturers are able to recycle what they pay in carbon taxation back into investment in emissions-reducing projects, just ensuring that there's a “one for one” there so that as carbon revenue comes into the government it doesn't go into general revenues—that they're able to put it back into an operation. For example, if a manufacturer wants to reduce its facilities' emissions by implementing a new energy generation system or something like that, providing that recycling ability would help them reduce their emissions overall. I think it would be pretty powerful.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
Thanks.
Mr. Allan, I asked about profitability in your business, and you seemed rather hesitant to answer that question. I have a question more about the industry in general. Is it possible for companies in your industry to be profitable right now without government grants and loans?
5:25 p.m.
Vice-President, Public Affairs and General Counsel, AddÉnergie Technologies Inc.
The reason I was hesitant is that we're engaged in a major expansion to sell Canadian-made charging stations with clean Canadian aluminum to the United States, so we're undertaking a lot of expenses to grow our North American market share.
For level two charging stations that you'd use at home or commercially at a business to bring people in as your customers, there's already a great business case. Fleets already have a great business case for light-duty vehicle electrification. There are huge opportunities there for private businesses. I think those are very clear, and there's a huge opportunity to be profitable in selling them.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
Are you saying that those are currently profitable businesses, generally speaking?
5:25 p.m.
Vice-President, Public Affairs and General Counsel, AddÉnergie Technologies Inc.
They can be profitable on a transactional basis. It depends whether a company is trying to be in a steady state or is trying to grow. Those stations can definitely have a good ROI for the businesses that invest in them.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
If we're already at that point, is there any need to have any government subsidies and grants for those products?
5:25 p.m.
Vice-President, Public Affairs and General Counsel, AddÉnergie Technologies Inc.
There is a strong argument for incentivizing smart charging, which tends to be slightly more expensive to buy but has the huge opportunity to help people use electricity better at their homes or businesses—going back to some of the things Mr. Bradley said. Smart charging allows you to manage load, so that you're not charging at the times that are not good for the grid. We've actually patented Canadian patents on various smart energy technologies.
Typically, the biggest subsidies are required for the DC fast charging stations that you'd see at a highway or a rest stop; those tend to be the highest cost. Also, for multi-unit dwellings there are significant barriers, so incentives are helping to basically build out that infrastructure.
At a certain point, however, once we get higher levels of EV adoption, I don't think incentives will be required.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
It sounds as though you're saying that for level one and two charging, incentives aren't really that important at the moment, but that it's more for the level three charging that they're needed.
It's my understanding that in the level three world, there is not a standard plug. Is that correct?
5:25 p.m.
Vice-President, Public Affairs and General Counsel, AddÉnergie Technologies Inc.
There are at least three competing standards for DC fast charging.
Just to correct one thing, there are still, I think, many situations in which incentivizing level two can help Canadians feel more comfortable that there are EV charging options.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
Okay, but you said that from a business perspective, the business case is already there without incentives, even on level two.
5:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Public Affairs and General Counsel, AddÉnergie Technologies Inc.
Yes, there can be a strong business case for fleets and also for merchants who are trying to attract people to their businesses. There are in those cases other economic benefits for providing charging services.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
Do you believe your investments through Canada and the U.S. put you in the best position to capitalize on the current standard that you have for the plug on level three chargers and to possibly gain a monopoly there?
5:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Public Affairs and General Counsel, AddÉnergie Technologies Inc.
Our company offers the two major open charging standards for our DCFC charging stations, because different auto makers use different standards. We don't offer the Tesla plug; you'd need to use a converter for it. We'll adapt which charging standards we offer depending upon which one becomes the winner in the market, effectively.
November 2nd, 2020 / 5:30 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Schiefke Liberal Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I am pleased to be here with the three of you this evening. Thank you for taking the time to speak with the committee. This is an issue my community, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, and I care about. I bought an electric vehicle five years ago.
My first question is for the three of you.
Today, do we need to invest in a network of electric vehicle charging stations and subsidize the purchase of electric vehicles, or have we hit a point where enough charging stations are available to Canadians in their communities?
Each of you can take 30 seconds to answer.
5:30 p.m.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
On a point of order, Madam Chair, the volume of the English translation is exactly the same as the French. I made out most of it, but I had a hard time making out Mr. Schiefke's question.
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Mr. Schiefke, would you like to repeat your question in English or in French?
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Schiefke Liberal Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
I'll repeat my question in French.
I bought an electric vehicle five years ago. Back then, people worried that the country didn't have enough charging stations. Is that still a worry for people? Today, is EV adoption merely a matter of subsidies and price, or do we still need to invest in both subsidies and charging stations?
Each of you can have 30 seconds to answer.
5:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Public Affairs and General Counsel, AddÉnergie Technologies Inc.
Perhaps I can start, Madam Chair.
We have made important progress, particularly in places like Quebec and B.C., through support from the federal government, and also local utilities like B.C. Hydro, Hydro-Québec, Circuit électrique and private companies, but there are still numerous places in Canada where it is challenging to find the appropriate level of charging, either DC fast charging or level two.
Our view is that for us to really get to a place where Canadians are comfortable, we likely need to double or triple the amount of charging station penetration. Some countries, like Norway, have achieved over 50% sales and adoption. There is still important work to be done to build that up, and build the Canadian charging industry as well.
5:30 p.m.
President, Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association
It's really three legs of the stool, if you will. There is still a need for additional consumer incentives until we reach price parity. There is a need for more education. Many consumers and Canadians still have questions about EVs, legitimate questions about batteries, charging ranges and even recycling. Those are real questions that need to be addressed. We've been driving ICE vehicles for a very long time, so there's a transition that will have to take place.
The last piece is infrastructure. There will be a need for more infrastructure, particularly if you look at rural regions, where there is some build-out now, but where people drive further ranges and need that capacity.