Evidence of meeting #6 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was commissioner.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
I'm sorry. I have very limited time. Have you met with leaders of any of Canada's environmental organizations?
4:40 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General
I personally have not yet. They have communicated with me, and we are reaching out through our professional networks to make sure that people know we're searching.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
Thank you, Ms. Hogan. If you haven't met with any of these leaders from Canada's environmental movements, I'm worried that the Office of the Auditor General doesn't have the expertise it needs to support the commissioner of the environment to do the important and specialized work of environmental audits.
I understand that there is a specialized group, called the commissioner's group, in the environment commissioner's office. Can you tell me about the status of the commissioner's group right now? How many people are on it, and what are their roles?
4:40 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General
As I mentioned earlier, while we do have a group that we call the commissioner's group, it is more of an administrative function because of who they report to within our organization's structure. Our performance audit practice has specialists from all fields.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
For sure. I'm just particularly concerned and wondering about the commissioner's group right now. How many people are on it, and what are their roles?
4:40 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General
I couldn't really tell you how many people are on a particular team, because as I said, we don't have people who are designated within a group. We have auditors who spend a good amount of their time working on performance audits that are issued under the banner of the commissioner of the environment and sustainable development, but it's not a group. We are one happy family of auditors. It's just that some have specialties and spend a lot more time helping with the environment work—
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
Thank you so much. I have such limited time, and I want to get to all of my questions.
From what you're saying, it sounds like this group doesn't totally exist anymore, and from what I've heard, the group did exist. From what you're describing, it sounds like in some ways this group may have been abolished.
4:40 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General
No, not at all, the group was not abolished. What we're doing is that we're taking the skills and specialties of people like Ms. Leach and Mr. McKenzie, who are here today, and spreading them out across our work. When we want to have sustainable development goals addressed in all of our work—
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
I understand that there's a lot of work going on, but Parliament has explicitly recognized that we are also facing a national environmental emergency and that this kind of environmental auditing is very important. I think by the logic that it needs to be more integrated, if you were to merge Environment Canada with NRCan, you'd risk subordinating environmental concerns to economic ones. It's concerning to hear that this group is no longer existing as it used to.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
The witnesses can always come back and provide answers and comments to previously asked questions.
We'll go to the second round now, with questions of five minutes and two and a half minutes.
We'll start with Mr. Jeneroux.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
Mr. Hayes and Ms. Hogan, I'd like to thank you and your teams for joining us here today.
Mr. Hayes, were you recently consulted on the government's announcement of plastic toxicity labelling?
4:45 p.m.
Deputy Auditor General and Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
No, I wasn't.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
4:45 p.m.
Deputy Auditor General and Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
No, we weren't. I will maybe say that our role as an auditor can involve being consulted up front, but that's really the prerogative of the department. We can and do sometimes look into design when we know about things in advance.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
Great. Thank you.
It says here that, as part of your mandate, the commissioner provides parliamentarians with “analysis and recommendations on the federal government’s efforts to protect the environment and foster sustainable development”. Do you think it would have been helpful to have conversations with you ahead of time?
4:45 p.m.
Deputy Auditor General and Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
I'll use as an example the consultation that was built into the Federal Sustainable Development Act and the federal sustainable development strategy. We did provide advice when consulted before that was put into place. Also, I believe our recommendations were of value to the government when they did receive them.
We are an information point. We are a place that would like to be helpful early on as well as in the work we do after.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
That sounds like a long “yes”, Mr. Commissioner.
I agree. I think it would be helpful to consult you in advance of some of these announcements.
Would you agree that it's vital to be able to properly assess targets and priorities in order to know whether government policies are in fact producing results that will protect the environment?
4:45 p.m.
Deputy Auditor General and Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
I do agree that it is important to assess targets and performance measures. What you measure is going to drive what you achieve, so it is important to know you have the right measures and targets in place early on, before it's too late.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
Has the government acknowledged the issues you've outlined in your report?
4:45 p.m.
Deputy Auditor General and Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
In general for the commissioner's reports, we've had agreement on the facts and the presentation of the information in the reports and to the recommendations. Typically, the departments respond with actions they will take in response to our recommendations.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
Have they then demonstrated a willingness to amend the draft in order to properly assess all government priorities and targets to ensure transparency?