Environment Committee on Aug. 26th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I will ask you to be brief, Mr. St‑Gelais.

[Steeve St-Gelais]

From the first meeting, we were informed that the order was drafted and not much about it could be changed, no matter the disastrous consequences. That did not leave us with much hope. We did continue to express ourselves in every way possible, of course.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

I will now give the floor to Mr. Boulerice.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to start by saying how much I appreciate the history of Boisaco and the people in the community who took a stand, took matters into their own hands and set up a work co-op and collective ownership. As a member of the NDP, that certainly resonates with me. I'm truly touched by that story. I think it could serve as a model for several other industries and workplaces in general.

I'm kind of torn because I'm hearing contradictory information. I understand the Boisaco rep, who says we can't put a glass dome over the habitat. That's not the solution; it wouldn't fix anything. Still, there are challenges facing a species that seems to be at risk, threatened or, at the very least, vulnerable in many ways.

In the spirit of seeking solutions, what do you think could be done to improve the current situation that would be acceptable to you? I don't think we can sit back and say, “We don't need to change anything. Let's just maintain the status quo and do nothing.” What do you think could be done that would be a step in the right direction and be acceptable to your workers?

[Steeve St-Gelais]

We need to approach this in an informed way, Mr. Boulerice.

Basically, what we've always suggested is that the solution calls for consensus and needs to take all the factors into account. One way or another, predation control definitely has to be part of a protection strategy. The strategy can be adjusted from time to time. There are lots of things we can do. We've suggested a number of solutions to the Quebec government. This has to be done properly, and it can't be rushed. Many stakeholders are involved, including first nations. There are many stakeholders, and everyone has to work together. That's what we mean when we say there has to be consensus.

You can't steamroller anything through. You need to create the opportunity to come up with good solutions that will have a meaningful impact on the subspecies in Quebec, especially the boreal caribou ecotype. This is the truth, and I really want to set the record straight. There is only one subspecies in Quebec, and it's the boreal caribou ecotype that we're concerned about. That said, the caribou subspecies in Quebec is in no way in danger of going extinct. That's an important point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Mr. Martel, it's your turn.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Firstly, the order is catastrophic for regions and communities. That's clear from our discussions today. If the order is issued, some people will lose their jobs and many will have a hard time securing food and shelter. That's the threat right now.

Here's what I want to know. Have all the necessary measures been taken?

[Steeve St-Gelais]

What kind of measures are you talking about, exactly?

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Have all the necessary measures been taken prior to issuing an order?

[Steeve St-Gelais]

The provincial government made an announcement recently, and we know talks are under way to work on solutions. We have put solutions forward. The provincial government is analyzing the situation and looking for other possible solutions. It's crucial to take the time to come up with solutions that take all the facts and issues into account. That's how you go about finding a solution. You have to take the time to make an informed decision. You can't rush into things by issuing an order that, unfortunately, doesn't take into account any of the other repercussions.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you.

I have no more questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you, Mr. Martel.

Mrs. Shanahan, you're going to wrap up the discussion with the first panel. You have five minutes.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to verify something. Have the witnesses been asked to provide the documents they mentioned while answering questions from my colleagues, Mr. Lauzon and Ms. Chatel? Apparently these documents contain data showing that caribou numbers are not declining.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You want the witnesses to send us documents indicating that the species is not in decline, is that right?

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Yes, I'm talking about the documents the witnesses mentioned.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I don't believe the witnesses have them on hand, but I invite them to send us those documents.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Perfect. Of course, as my colleagues have already said, it's very important to work collaboratively and to have all the facts before us.

My first question is for the Boisaco representatives.

We recognize that your company plays a leadership role in the economic development and prosperity of regional communities. However, like any business, you need certainty when it comes to your resources and your market.

Is the lack of concrete policies to address the significant decline of the caribou population in Quebec a challenge for you, and does that contribute to the regulatory uncertainty facing your industry?

[Steeve St-Gelais]

Mrs. Shanahan, uncertainty is always a bad thing, obviously.

As I was saying, over the past four years, we've worked very hard to ensure that the provincial government understands the issues and takes measured, informed action. We've gotten that point across, but it's still looking for solutions. However, when the order was announced, that knocked us back to square one, or worse. Now that there's the possibility of an enforceable order, we're even more worried, so, yes, this order introduces uncertainty.

The repercussions are already being felt, I can tell you. This is likely to be a problem, so some contractors are thinking about starting to look elsewhere. Some of our partner companies' clients—

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Sorry to interrupt you, Mr. St-Gelais.

We do know the Quebec government has been talking about implementing a strategy since 2016. Regardless, we're here to collaborate. Would you like governments to set aside ideology about jurisdiction so they can find a solution that strikes a balance between caribou conservation and regional economic development? As everyone knows, these are shared responsibilities.

Do you recognize that the province does have an important role to play on this issue?

[Steeve St-Gelais]

Ms. Shanahan, what we're saying is that this order must be set aside. This whole thing has to stop.

Then, we have to keep working together. We're not here to play politics. We have lots of things to work on in addition to this. We need to figure out how to get everyone working together so we can find promising solutions that will protect the boreal caribou ecotype without having an impact on the industry. That's exactly where we're hoping to go. To get there, however, we need to get rid of the looming threat, the order that has screwed up everything we've been working on and is dragging us back to square one.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. St-Gelais.

I'm done, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

That brings us to the end of our first panel. I'd like to thank—

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Chair, if I may, I'd like add something that I feel is essential.

I would like the Boisaco representatives to make it clear that, if the order comes into force, Boisaco will lose 300,000 cubic metres of wood, which is 60% of its current volume. Worse still, if the company loses just 20% of its current volume, it will lose 80% of its sales. I want that on the record. I would like Boisaco's representatives to confirm that this is true.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay. I would invite the Boisaco representatives to submit a written document containing such data, if they have it.

With that, we'll have to end it there.

I would like to thank the witnesses for being here and for their very eloquent and clear testimony.

We'll take a short break and start up again in a few minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We're back.

I'd like to welcome Chief Ghislain Picard. We're glad to have him with us.

We have a second witness, Alain Bédard, who is appearing by video conference, but who is currently having some technical difficulties, which we'll try to resolve.

We'll start with you, Chief Picard. You have the floor for five minutes.