Environment Committee on Nov. 6th, 2024

Evidence of meeting #131 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Meeting Requested Pursuant to Standing Order 106(4) to Discuss Canada's Reporting on its Progress in Reducing Greenhouse Gas Emissions

Committee Business

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee Ms. Natalie Jeanneault

1:50 p.m.

Bloc

Louis-Philippe Sauvé Bloc LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC

Okay.

In any case, regardless of whether the subamendment is admissible, the committee must—

1:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Dan Mazier

Just for verification, though, you hit on many main points. You're exactly right in what you're thinking. To the extent that it takes away from the main motion, it takes away from your motion. That's 100% right.

Continue.

1:50 p.m.

Bloc

Louis-Philippe Sauvé Bloc LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC

In that case, I will no longer comment on the admissibility of the subamendment. However, for a number of months, the committee has been conducting a study with an already‑defined purpose. As this study, proposed by the member for Repentigny, draws to a close, we're trying to change its nature.

My concerns aren't about the need to focus on emissions. Instead, my concern is that we aren't looking at the same thing at all. I think that it would be highly unwise to change the nature of the study that this committee began many moons ago.

1:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Dan Mazier

Ms. Taylor Roy is next.

1:50 p.m.

Liberal

Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Sauvé, I will reiterate that I am in support of the amendment you made and Ms. Pauzé's position. The study we have been doing on sustainable finance is very important, and I believe we should finish it. Aligning our finance with our climate goals is part of how we can meet our emissions targets.

What I tried to do in my subamendment was to not change the study we are doing but to add to it so that it can be positive and so that we can look at other ways in which we could, in fact, meet our climate targets. After looking at the commissioner's report, we're acknowledging that there are shortfalls. We're not denying that.

Ms. Collins, to your point, we have the report from the commissioner of the environment and sustainable development. We know that there are shortfalls. We know that there are issues. We want to address those just as well. I think you have some great ideas to add to what we can do.

I welcome your comments on the cap on pollution. We're in a bit of a quandary because of the provincial jurisdiction on this. I would love to hear from you and from members from the Conservative Party on the ways in which we can actually put this in place in such a way that it's not interpreted to be a cap on production and therefore enters provincial jurisdiction. I think it would be a really fruitful discussion.

I'm not saying that we not look at what the commissioner of the environment and sustainable development has said. I'm saying that we look at it, but let's make this useful and not just criticize. Let's talk about how we actually solve those problems. That's what we're here to do. We're here to work collectively to make this a better place.

I want to clarify as well, Ms. Collins, a point you raised earlier on this subamendment with regard to my comment on the NDP now not supporting the price on pollution program. It is factual that the NDP did reverse their position on making all polluters pay by saying that you do not want the price on pollution, or the carbon levy, to be applied to consumers, so you have changed that position. I'm not making something up. I was simply saying that you have changed your position on that.

I know that on biodiversity we're both concerned. We know that biodiversity goes hand in hand with climate change. I think Mr. van Koeverden's amendment to include a reference to that, which hopefully we'll get to and at some point be looking at, is also important. I'm putting this forward because I want us to be focused on results and not just on politics and laying blame. If the Conservatives are truly concerned with the Government of Canada's position on reaching our emissions targets, I am sure they would want to work with us to come up with solutions.

I know that's what the NDP does want and what the Bloc wants. I know that there are members of the Conservative Party who also want that. Let's use our time wisely to actually look at what's happening in that report. We've all seen it. We can all read it. We've seen that and we all accept it, but let's also move forward and actually make real progress, especially for the young people of Canada who desperately want to see us address this issue.

I'd appeal to you that I'm not trying, in any way, to change the focus to some shiny new target or to do whatever Mr. Leslie said. I'm actually trying to say that we should use our time, if we're going to focus on this, to move forward and find solutions. I think all of us have good ideas. I would welcome them.

Thank you.

1:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Dan Mazier

Thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. Collins.

1:55 p.m.

NDP

Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC

I will quickly respond to Ms. Taylor Roy's comments.

I have said and will continue to say that carbon pricing is an essential tool in our tool box when it comes to tackling the climate crisis. My New Democrat colleagues and I have continued to support carbon pricing, but we are committed to a plan that would make the biggest polluters pay the most, to bring down costs for Canadians, to meet our emissions targets and to unify people when it comes to taking on the climate crisis.

Despite being in power for nine years, the Liberal government has failed to do this. Unfortunately, the Liberals have fixated on their own specific design of consumer carbon pricing as the best and only way to fight the climate crisis. For some reason, when anyone dares to criticize that plan, they try to use this as a political wedge. It is a disservice to climate action. It is a disservice to Canadians. When we have industrial carbon pricing, which makes up 40% of the emissions reduction plan between now and 2030, and when we have methane regulations, and when we have the emissions cap, all of these are doing the huge bulk of our emissions reductions.

I know that Ms. Taylor Roy genuinely wants to talk about these things because these are critical policies in our fight to tackle the climate crisis, but using consumer carbon pricing as a political wedge is doing a disservice to everything you think you're fighting for. It is too bad.

It also makes me very wary of the disingenuous Liberal rhetoric when it comes to actually holding the biggest polluters accountable.

1:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Dan Mazier

Thank you, Ms. Collins.

Seeing no other debate, I will call the question on the subamendment.

Just to give you a heads-up, once we get done with this, Mr. Leslie, you're back on for the amendment.

Clerk, please go ahead with the vote.