Evidence of meeting #31 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was actually.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Yes. We've left most of the consultation with Caldwell for that. I actually have a Walpole Island pin on me right now because I work with them on the Jay Treaty. They're in my office and that, so they're aware of the work that's going on. Caldwell has been with them.
Part of truth and reconciliation is to also make sure that they have their strategy. They are both engaged with Parks Canada as well. It's a good question.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
Really, when we're talking about reconciliation, working with Parks Canada and having them go through that process as part of the Government of Canada and under the parks act, as you said, I think is an important thing to respect, and that members of Parliament don't interrupt that part of the consultation—
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Yes. That's not happening here, but the reality for me as a local member is that Caldwell First Nation represents the land there and that's whom we went to to start our consultation. We've left it to them. They're working with their different organizations.
We actually had a big meeting in Windsor over the Jay Treaty recently. That was over the boundary stuff, so that was there, and they were also up on the Hill for the Jay Treaty discussion, too, which I've heard had some positive things taking place.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
That's good. Thanks.
I also appreciate that this isn't a partisan thing. We've spoken with Irek Kusmierczyk, who is also quite excited about the park being established, following whatever process Parliament decides and works on.
Liberal
Bloc
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to Madame Pauzé for the time.
I wanted to go back to the question about adaptation and mitigation, specifically around floods. Could you expand a bit on how the Ojibway national urban park would help this area?
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Yes. Right now, you have the border crossing that is there. You already have it as a lower area, so even when they're building the Gordie Howe bridge, it's taking longer on the Canadian side. Mr. Epp will know this too. We've actually had to fill in the property and let it settle, because it's already at a low level with the river.
That's another complication we face and the reason why, like the Rouge, it got its own legislation. The Rouge has its own legislation. Every other national park has its own legislation. That's part of the reason we want it, because there are other complexities there that are going to involve international border boundary issues.
Then, basically, that sponge area, we want to protect that. The businesses there also want that. They don't want that developed either, because if it's developed, it's going to create more problems. We have major agriculture down there and fuelling and so forth.
There's a whole series of things. It's a gem among a lot of tough stuff that's going on there.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
Thanks so much.
In addition to the work you've been doing with the Caldwell First Nation, you also mentioned—also across the border—the Wyandot First Nation. Can you talk a bit more about that developing relationship?
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Yes, that's an exciting one too. That's the Wyandot. When you look at our 300-plus years of francophonie, and then also before that, Huron Church Road was basically a highway. It's the oldest settlement west of Montreal. We have a lot of traditions with the Huron as well. These are important things.
That was really the thing with Caldwell First Nation and others. They went back and forth over the border. That's what the Jay Treaty is. It's part of what Mr. Epp was referring to earlier with regard to our relations and going back and forth. These are part of who we are as people, and that's really exciting.
There's been that extra contact taking place as more people are realizing what we have here and realizing that there's movement on it. It's growing. It's growing and getting better. That's exciting, because we haven't had those things before. They're rather unique. With COVID, we were locked out of each other's lives, and now it's opening up in other ways. It's kind of amazing.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
You've already talked a bit about the Gordie Howe bridge and said that it's the largest federally funded infrastructure project in the country and is connecting Windsor and Detroit. It's the busiest border crossing. Can you expand a little on how Ojibway national park would be connected with this new bridge?
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Yes. Actually, I was there the other day. It's amazing, because there's actually going to be this section where you can take your bike or your e-bike or whatever it might be—who knows what they're going to be anymore—or walk across, and there's a section to go separately through there. There's a tourism section that's going to be caught right into Sandwich Town. This is huge for the people down there.
I mentioned that they were pinned by the water and they're pinned by the Ambassador Bridge. If you're not familiar with the Ambassador Bridge, there is an American billionaire who has boarded up homes on the Canadian side and he's known for...and the family, his son now, Matthew.... We've had to bring in a special law to bring it under control. There have been several stories of problems over the years.
They had no community benefits. The Gordie Howe bridge got them community benefits for the first time, and those community benefits go to Sandwich Town to help it deal with the poverty and with the other issues. Part of that is a tourism connection there. The bike lane is coming, a brand new road is going into Sandwich Town, and this urban park goes right next to it.
What's kind of cool is also that the urban park will connect into the Herb Gray Parkway, which also has extensive trail systems going all the way out to Highway 401. This is another way to get into a whole other section that I didn't talk about and that is also already developed in there. It has actually won awards, so we've done it right. We want to finish it right.
Conservative
Damien Kurek Conservative Battle River—Crowfoot, AB
Thank you very much.
I think this is one of those unique opportunities in a minority Parliament. Our Westminster system gives these tremendous opportunities for there to be discussions. I was looking into this bill before the vote that took place, and I was surprised that it was all but two members of the government...and with full opposition support, it passed and was sent to this committee. Certainly, that's an interesting dynamic that exists. I'm in a province where we have an international park, Waterton Lakes, as a tremendous example.
That's where I'd like to take my question. I was surprised that most members of the government voted against it, but perhaps you could highlight some of the opportunities that exist with economic development, reconciliation and tourism that really can come out as a result of members of Parliament doing what we do in this place, which is being able to forward the issues that are important to Canadians, and the unique dynamics of this being a minority Parliament where we're at committee discussing this important bill.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Thank you very much for that.
I was a little bit surprised too that I didn't get a little bit more government support. Some of the stuff now is almost like grabbing at clouds: What's wrong with the bill? I'm open to amendments. I'm open to changing it. I'd like to have everybody support this bill. I'm appreciative of and very grateful for the openness. I've tried to be transparent.
To be fair, the Bloc Québécois, the Conservatives and the Green Party had some concerns on things, and I had to work on getting those resolved. They were smaller things, but I was very happy to get that input. I'm looking for that input on the government side, because I would like more than two Liberals to vote for it.
It is a unique thing. My first Parliament here was in 2002, during a majority. I've been through Liberal majorities, Liberal minorities, Conservative majorities and Conservative minorities. Whatever you want to have here, life is short and time is short. That's why last time I worked with Mr. Waugh on a bill. I was really proud to do that, because it actually helped me to grow as a person. That's what I want to do here. I don't want to stop growing as a person at the table here. I'm trying to find solutions and get to that.
If we don't take those opportunities, they get.... What I've learned about this place is that it can be a logic-free zone. It can be that way, and it takes everybody, including me, to keep it from being that way. Sometimes, and it's why we're here, we have to make some political decisions. I know that it can be convenient to basically not see this uniqueness the way I do, but that's my job. It's never been easy to get the border crossing done. It's never been easy to do some of the other work I've done. But my job as a representative for that area is to prove the case. We did this with the border. We were told that it was not necessary and not needed. We fought until we got it done and done right.
I believe the same thing with this case. It's unique. It's on the border. It fits a lot of different things. I don't understand why we can't get it done.
Conservative
Damien Kurek Conservative Battle River—Crowfoot, AB
I would note that, interestingly, I didn't expect to see, at my first meeting as vice-chair of this committee, Stephen Harper being given credit in both panels that exist.
With that, I'll cede my time for us to move forward.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Liberal
Conservative
Damien Kurek Conservative Battle River—Crowfoot, AB
I think there were only probably 20 seconds left.
Liberal
Liberal
Terry Duguid Liberal Winnipeg South, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to Mr. Masse for appearing before us today.
I think you've heard around the table, Mr. Masse, that there is a shared goal. There may be some differences in the pathway to get there, but I think all of us share the view that this is a very special place on earth and needs to be protected.
I particularly understand your passion. I was a former city councillor for two terms and protected a small patch of tall grass prairie, the most endangered ecosystem in Canada. There's less than 1% of it left. So I share your passion. It was in Bill Blaikie's riding, rest his soul, and I prevented a big roadway from going right down the middle of it. I was called all sorts of names—I was a “hindrance to progress”—so maybe I understand some of the criticism you're getting. It's an incredible educational resource for the people of Transcona and the broader city.
My question, I think, has already been answered. You are open to amendments if they strengthen the proposal. That was good to hear.
I'm curious about your interactions with Parks Canada and with other members of Parliament, particularly the Liberal member who shares a border with you. It does seem that we share a common interest. I'm just wondering about your interactions, particularly with Parks Canada, to get to that good place that we all want.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Absolutely.
We have had discussions with Parks Canada. They're having discussions with other groups and organizations, but we don't really know what the process is.
We asked about Caldwell First Nation being co-managers, and at first they said no. Now they're saying yes and they're actually funding that, so that's excellent.
Before my bill, when I started working on saving the property, we went to Parks Canada, obviously, for advice when dealing with Point Pelee to understand the ecosystems and the diversity of it and why it's necessary. That has only convinced me more, with the work they are doing on Point Pelee, that we need this as a national park with the full package, and it's different.
I've always enjoyed working with Mr. Kusmierczyk. We've had frank discussions about this, and, quite frankly, before there was a bill with regard to single-event sports betting in the last Parliament, the government introduced its own legislation but then they pulled it off the table knowing that it wasn't going to go. I think it's a similar situation here. Every once in a while....
I'm not saying I'm right, but I know this area. I've represented this area for a long time and I've tried to do the right thing with consultation from day one. I'm looking to enhance it. I am open to amendments, because every piece of legislation needs help.
Liberal
Terry Duguid Liberal Winnipeg South, MB
Mr. Chair, I see it's the top of the hour. It is Friday afternoon. Could I cede my time to the chair?
