Evidence of meeting #39 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was forecasting.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director General, Policy, Planning and Partnerships Directorate, Department of the Environment
I can start on that.
The private member's bill proposes a specific timeline to develop a strategy and report on the results of that. In doing so, it galvanize efforts across many federal departments, which we've discussed. It also galvanizes efforts and collaboration, building on things that already exist and that we're already doing with provinces and territories, and shines a light on the necessity to work together in achieving the goal of the private member's bill.
Liberal
Tim Watchorn Liberal Les Pays-d'en-Haut, QC
Great. Thank you.
In the first hour, Dr. Pomeroy specified how the computing power and the expertise that's around the table on the federal level can help the provinces and municipalities have better adaptation and therefore save costs. Can you give us a couple of examples of how the federal input is going to save money for everyday Canadians?
Director General, Policy, Planning and Partnerships Directorate, Department of the Environment
I'll give two examples.
One is very closely linked to the meteorological service of Canada. We have a number of scientists as well as expert meteorologists who run models and predict future weather conditions. Our models are very sophisticated and well recognized around the world. We run these models on a supercomputer, so we have access to a supercomputer. We're able to bring different models together and link them to each other so that we can make that link between weather and water, which I mentioned earlier.
I'll also mention the example that was discussed previously at this committee, which is the flood hazard identification and mapping program that was led by NRCan. I'll turn to my colleague to provide details. Certainly, the work that NRCan did included bringing together provinces and territories. From the meteorological service of Canada, we lent our expertise to support the development of those flood hazard maps, which are engineering quality and can then be used by provinces and territories to make decisions about where they want to invest and where they want to build or not.
Director General, Canada Centre for Mapping and Earth Observation, Department of Natural Resources
With the flood hazard information and mapping program, the funding there has provided enough resources and collaboration. We have agreements with every province and territory. Through that effective collaboration we were able to create over 450 maps to date. That impacts over 516 communities. These communities now have engineer-level maps they can use to take decisions on their adaptation investments.
We're only partway through this program, which runs out in 2028. We are projecting by the end of the program that we will have over 1,100 communities with this level of flood mapping information to make decisions with.
Liberal
Wade Grant Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Thanks, Mr. Watchorn. Once again, thanks for acknowledging my 32nd birthday. I really appreciate that.
I know I only have a short time, Ms. Fortin.
I live in British Columbia. I'm in a metropolitan area, but there are large swaths of B.C. that are rural and remote towns, and first nations as well. We know that indigenous communities are becoming increasingly essential to environmental policy.
Can you speak to how the department is increasingly approaching indigenous engagement and co-development in its current work?
Director General, Policy, Planning and Partnerships Directorate, Department of the Environment
Unfortunately, I can only say that the department is doing so. I work in the meteorological service of Canada, so unless one of my colleagues wants to chime in here, I don't have a specific example. We are co-developing. Perhaps my colleague from the Canada Water Agency can speak to their engagement of indigenous communities and people.
Director General, Freshwater Policy and Engagement, Canada Water Agency
Thanks, Doris.
Yes, in reference to those eight freshwater ecosystem initiatives that we have across the country, my colleagues who deliver those programs work closely with indigenous partners in those basins to look at “on the ground” actions to improve freshwater quality and freshwater health. That includes working with them on indigenous knowledge systems and how we can bring that to bear on the issues in those water bodies. That would be one example. We have others. It's an important part of the work.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shannon Miedema
Thank you very much.
Mr. Bonin, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
The environment commissioner's report on the federal adaptation action plan notes that there are major problems with it and that it needs to be improved.
Why not address the current shortcomings rather than set up something like a national strategy?
Couldn't we address that in the national adaptation strategy, for example?
Director General, Policy, Planning and Partnerships Directorate, Department of the Environment
Thank you for the question.
You're right, there are a lot of gaps right now. I also believe there are gaps in terms of our ability to make flood-related predictions in the provinces and territories.
Earlier, I mentioned the flood hazard identification and mapping program, which you discussed in committee a few weeks ago. The program is part of the broader national adaptation strategy. Flooding is included in that.
In the national adaptation strategy, one of the key systems is resilience to natural disasters. It's an intrinsic part of the national adaptation strategy.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
The environment commissioner also mentioned that bilateral, federal, provincial and territorial action plans had to be prepared in connection with the national adaptation strategy. He emphasized the fact that there was no bilateral, federal or provincial action plan. That is, in fact, one of his main criticisms.
Should that be a priority, since we're talking about working with the provinces?
Director General, Policy, Planning and Partnerships Directorate, Department of the Environment
Unfortunately, I don't have any information on that particular issue. I could provide you with information in writing at a later date. I would also suggest that you talk to my colleagues inside the department, who are leading the delivery of these programs.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
The commissioner's report came out in June 2025. A year later, you're telling us that no progress has been made despite the commissioner's criticisms. He said that there was no action plan at the provincial and federal levels.
Director General, Policy, Planning and Partnerships Directorate, Department of the Environment
I didn't say that it hadn't progressed.
What I told you is that I don't have that information on hand at the moment.
Liberal
Conservative
Ellis Ross Conservative Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
We'll then go to Ms. Anstey.
Ms. Fortin, when we're talking about consultation with first nations on the water initiative we're talking about here today, “consultation” is a term that's being thrown around very loosely nowadays, but it has two definitions. One is per section 35 of the Constitution and the pursuant jurisprudence. One is just a basic general notification: “Hey, what's your opinion?”
What form of consultation and what definition are you going to use when you consult over 600 bands in Canada about water?
Director General, Policy, Planning and Partnerships Directorate, Department of the Environment
I cannot tell you what the bill has in mind for the definition of consultation. I can't speak to that because it's a private member's bill.
Conservative
Ellis Ross Conservative Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Is it a question that's being entertained right now, though?
I don't want first nations to be misled in terms of a formal consultation accommodation process—as per the Haida court case of 2004—as opposed to something of just getting some type of comment from 600 bands, say, by email, fax or letter. That is not consultation as per section 35.
If you can get back to me with an answer, that would be great, too.
Director General, Policy, Planning and Partnerships Directorate, Department of the Environment
My colleague Stephanie will add something here.
Executive Director, Legislative Governance, Department of the Environment
Just for clarification, are you speaking to the consultation that would be required by the bill in the preparation of the strategy?
Executive Director, Legislative Governance, Department of the Environment
The Government of Canada definitely respects its obligations under section 35 of the Constitution to consult.
Conservative
Ellis Ross Conservative Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
This will be under the guise of the jurisprudence that actually supports section 35. Will it be that kind of consultation?