Evidence of meeting #14 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mulroney.
A recording is available from Parliament.
February 7th, 2008 / 5 p.m.
Erica Pereira Committee Clerk, , House of Commons
Repeat after me. I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God.
5 p.m.
As an Individual
I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God.
5 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Thank you.
Now the question on everybody's mind is about the fact that you are now employed with the world-renowned Cirque du Soleil. C'est correct? Tell us what you do there.
5 p.m.
As an Individual
That's correct. I am Director of Food Services at headquarters in Montreal.
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Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Very well.
I know you're a little apprehensive. I want to take this slowly with you and I want you to relax. I know that anybody who comes before a committee for the first time is wondering about the process and what's going to happen here. You were here a little while ago to hear some of the proceedings with Mr. Luc Lavoie, who has been involved in this matter for many years. He knows how things work. He was obviously very comfortable.
I want you to understand that this isn't a court. We're not trying to find anybody innocent or guilty. We are conducting a study and we're trying to find out some information and some facts, which will help us to better understand a pretty complicated situation.
Your position, working at 24 Sussex and having an occasion to see and to hear things, to meet people, to know who was there and who came around, may be helpful to us to understand the relationships that exist among a variety of people. You are one of many witnesses, and I don't expect that you're going to help us in broad ways, but I have a feeling that the kinds of things you can tell us will give us a better sense, so that we better understand as other people tell us about what's going on.
I want to affirm to you that any testimony or evidence you provide to us it is protected by parliamentary privilege. That means that none of what you say here can be used against you by anyone for any proceeding, whether it be a court proceeding or an inquiry or anything. It's here, and it's protected here, and it can't be used at all.
As I said, because you were an employee—and from all we know, you did a very good job on behalf of the Prime Minister at the time—we've asked you here to help us. And that's exactly why you're here: to express freely your opinions, your views, your observations, your speech.
Having said that, I know you will try to answer the questions to the best of your ability, and we will work together to make sure we have the time to properly explain ourselves.
Do you have any questions to ask before we start?
5 p.m.
As an Individual
No, not really. That happened a number of years ago, so I'm going to try to give the most precise and clear answers possible. That goes back some 20 years.
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Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
I understand.
I'm going to commence, then, with Mr. Dhaliwal, who is going to ask you some questions for a few minutes. We'll get it started and see how it goes. Okay?
5 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and welcome, Mr. Martin.
I'm interested in your describing for Canadians and to our nation the details of your handling cash for the Mulroneys while you were employed as their chef and manager at 24 Sussex Drive.
The first question is this. You would pick up envelopes full of cash for the Mulroneys from the Prime Minister's office. Is that correct?
5:05 p.m.
As an Individual
No, I didn't pick up any envelopes from the prime minister's office. Once I picked up an envelope from an office that was that of Fred Doucet at the time, a brown envelope that I took over to the residence.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
What was contained in that brown envelope that you picked up from Mr. Doucet?
5:05 p.m.
As an Individual
I have no idea what was in that envelope. I transported the envelope as a messenger because I was going to the Langevin Building office. So I took that envelope. I remember it because, before that, Mrs. Mulroney had asked me to make a $10,000 deposit at the Bank of Montreal on the pedestrian mall behind the Langevin Building. The envelope contained $10,000, as I told you, and I deposited it while I did my errands, groceries and so on.
I particularly remember Mr. Doucet's envelope because it looked like the one that Mrs. Mulroney had first given me, but I had no idea at the time what the envelope contained.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
At one point you said there was lots of cash at 24 Sussex when you had a job there as a manager. Is that true?
5:05 p.m.
As an Individual
Where was there a lot of money? I don't understand your question. Are you asking whether there was a lot of money circulating? I don't understand your question.
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Liberal
5:05 p.m.
As an Individual
Look, I held petty cash of $1,500 to cover expenses and to support the two residences at the time. I don't remember seeing money flowing or anything of that kind.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
It is my understanding a special safe was installed in your office to handle or hoard the cash in Mulroney's.... Could you confirm that is true?
5:05 p.m.
As an Individual
I can confirm for you that there was a safe in my office, but I don't know what it contained. I can't give you an answer on that subject.
5:05 p.m.
As an Individual
There was Prime Minister Mulroney, as well as his assistant at the time, Mr. Rick Morgan.
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Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
So those were the only people who kept track of the money going into and coming out of that safe, Mr. Morgan and Mr. Prime Minister at that time.
5:05 p.m.
As an Individual
To my knowledge, yes. As I told you, those people used the safe, but I don't know whether they put money or documents in it. It was in my office, and they came and left. I was very busy directing the two kitchens and organizing the staff. I didn't glue my ear to the door to find out what was going on.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
You said earlier the envelope you picked up from Mr. Doucet was either the same or a similar envelope that you deposited into the Bank of Montreal.
5:05 p.m.
As an Individual
It was similar to the envelope I had deposited once at the Bank of Montreal for Mrs. Mulroney, to a bank account that belonged to her. I don't see anything illegal in that. I thought that was one of a number of trivial errands.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
Did you do any other personal banking besides this deposit at the Bank of Montreal for Mrs. Mulroney?