Information & Ethics Committee on Feb. 7th, 2008

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Mr. Lavoie, in November 1995, the question from the CBC was, “Does Mr. Mulroney have any connection at all to either of the Swiss accounts in question?” And the numbers are there, namely code-named Devon. The answer: “I categorically deny that he has anything to do or has had anything to do with those accounts.”

Question: “Did he ever receive money from those accounts through a second party?” Answer: “Absolutely not.”

Question: “And you know this to be true?” Answer: “I know this to be true.”

Question: “How do you know?” Answer: “He told me.”

That was in 1995. You didn't know...and in fact, your state of mind was that he had received no money from Karlheinz Schreiber in 1995.

[Luc Lavoie]

That's not what I'm talking about. We're talking about bank accounts as they were identified in the letter of request sent to Switzerland on September 29, 1995.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

I know what you were talking about.

[Luc Lavoie]

I'm certainly not--

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Order, please.

There's a point of order.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

There's an issue in terms of the agenda. I thought at 4:30 we were to start a new individual. What is happening?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Thank you, Mr. Wallace.

If you heard my opening statement, I referred...and Mr. Tilson raised this and argued this at the last meeting. I didn't take the time then, but I'll repeat what I said at the beginning of the meeting to remind members that when we approved the witness list last week and decided that Mr. Schreiber was not coming last Thursday, we went through it, and I explained to the committee at that time that we would put one comprehensive witness together with a narrower witness.

So we knew there was likely going to be an imbalance in the amount of time, notwithstanding the thing, but to allow the chair the flexibility to make sure, and in fact--

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Oh, so you are assuming that this is the substantive witness and the next witness is not.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Thank you.

It's not a point of order, but I did want to answer your question.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

It is a point of order when it's the orders of the day. The witness is listed as starting at 4:30.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

No.

Thank you, Mr. Wallace.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

I think we should be following the agenda, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Mr. Wallace, the committee approved the manner in which we would conduct these meetings. In fact, we also agreed--and the transcript of the meeting will show--that the meeting would go on beyond the scheduled time of 5:30 if the committee needed the time to complete and bring a questioning session to the end. That was approved by the committee. I'm following the committee's instructions.

So thank you.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

What question are we on now?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

We're now in the third round.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

How long do you expect to go?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

We're just getting to the end now. If you'd like to speak to me after, so that I can refresh your minds about what we agreed to last week, which is in the minutes.... I'll ask the clerk to please get the minutes out so that the members can know.

Now, let's move on with our business. Thank you.

Mr. Murphy, carry on. You have two minutes.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll speak very quickly.

Mr. Lavoie, you told the nation that he had not received money from accounts—the Devon accounts, or whatever—in 1995. As far as you knew, he had received no money from Karlheinz Schreiber.

How could you possibly know he didn't receive money through the Devon account, because you now know, years later, that he got money from Karlheinz Schreiber, who had some implication in those accounts? How could you be certain in 1995 that he didn't receive money from Devon?

The answer is, I suggest, that Mr. Mulroney didn't tell you that he got any money from Karlheinz Schreiber, and therefore you told the truth when you said that he did not get any money from Devon or otherwise, because he kept that from you.

What do you think? Do you think you should give an answer to that?

[Luc Lavoie]

I heard a statement. It was a little convoluted, but I'd like to help you—

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Do you agree with it?

[Luc Lavoie]

What?

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Do you agree with the statement?

[Luc Lavoie]

No, I don't.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Could you tell me what the name was of the corporation Mr. Mulroney set up with respect to consulting? That's another question you didn't quite answer from me.

[Luc Lavoie]

The same question was asked by Mr. Mulcair.