Information & Ethics Committee on Feb. 7th, 2008

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Good afternoon.

This is the 14th meeting of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. The order of the day is pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the study of the Mulroney Airbus settlement.

Before we begin, colleagues, I'd simply like to remind you of the understanding we arrived at, at our meeting last week, that witnesses were paired up during this period, where we had one comprehensive witness and we had another witness who would maybe have a less broad range of question areas.

I anticipate that this meeting will be similar to the last one, and with the first witness we will probably go two complete rounds, we'll have a five-minute break, and then we will go to our second witness and carry on at least for a first round and a little longer if the committee so desires.

Our first witness today is Mr. Luc Lavoie, former communications director for Mr. Brian Mulroney until November 2007. Mr. Lavoie is currently an executive vice-president of Quebecor Inc.

Good afternoon, Mr. Lavoie.

On December 15, 2007, the committee provided me with a list of priority witnesses to be called before us. Your name was included in that list, and we thank you for accepting voluntarily our invitation to appear before us today.

I would like to ask the clerk if he would please swear in the witness before we commence.

[Luc Lavoie, As an Individual]

The evidence I shall give on this examination shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Thank you, sir. I know you have followed our proceedings and you are generally familiar with how our proceedings work, so I'm not going to explain anything to you in detail. But it certainly is expected, and we certainly hope, that you'll be able to clarify for us or help us to better understand certain matters that have been brought before our committee.

I want to remind you that refusal to answer a question is not an option; however, if you believe there is any question whatsoever that you feel should not be answered, I will hear your argument and make a ruling.

As a courtesy to our translators, I ask you not to speak too quickly. I will give you the time you need to make your responses to the committee.

I understand you do not have an opening statement for us today, so we're going to move immediately to questions.

We'll begin with Mr. Thibault.

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Thank you for being here, Mr. Lavoie.

First, I would like to get something clear. In answering for former Prime Minister Mulroney, you said in the media that he had indeed received $300,000 in cash from Mr. Schreiber, in three payments of $100,000 each. Is that correct?

[Luc Lavoie]

[Technical difficulties - Editor] what I said in the media. It's also a fact that I didn't have accurate information.

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

I find that hard to understand, Mr. Lavoie. You had been Mr. Mulroney's spokesperson in this matter for some time. You had a professional relationship with Mr. Mulroney, but a very close and friendly one as well. I find it hard to understand how you could answer those questions without consulting your client on the subject.

[Luc Lavoie]

At the time I answered those questions, I had never discussed specific amounts with Mr. Mulroney, at any time.

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

At what time—

[Luc Lavoie]

Pardon me, the amounts in question came from the media.

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

You said that it was $300,000 and that $100,000 had been exchanged in cash the first time.

[Luc Lavoie]

I did say that.

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

At what time did Mr. Mulroney inform you that he had received money from Mr. Schreiber?

[Luc Lavoie]

I was informed in the spring of 2000 by Mr. Mulroney's lawyer that Mr. Mulroney had received what was described to me as a retainer. I was told that that payment had been made to him in cash by Mr. Schreiber and that it had been made in three instalments. I didn't ask exactly how much money was involved, but I asked what order of magnitude we were talking about. I was told three times that the matter involved tens of thousands of dollars.

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

You said in multiple interviews, some with Mr. Cashore of the CBC, that previous to this date, Mr. Mulroney had not received any money from Karlheinz Schreiber. I think at one point you used derogatory comments—that he was a liar—in referring to Mr. Schreiber and the exchanges of these funds.

On what basis did you reply to the media that Mr. Mulroney had not received any funds?

[Luc Lavoie]

I remember very clearly those four telephone conversations with the journalist Harvey Cashore of the Fifth Estate. At no time during those four conversations was there any question of the money paid after Mr. Mulroney left his office. I had been Mr. Mulroney's spokesman in this matter starting in 1995. The only matter at issue up to the time of that conversation, and during that conversation, was the money deposited to Swiss bank accounts in the context of the transaction for the purchase of Airbus aircraft, for the purchase of MBB helicopters and for a project called Bear Head.

At no time during that conversation, when I said that he had not received any money, was there any question of money paid after he had left office. So if you want to follow the logic to its conclusion, I would say that, if I had to answer the same questions in the same circumstances, I would answer the same way because what we were talking about was contained in a letter sent to Switzerland in September 1995.

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

In February 1998, I believe, Mr. Mulroney met Mr. Karlheinz Schreiber in a hotel room in Zurich. In 1998, were you aware of that meeting?

[Luc Lavoie]

No.

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

You had been acting as Mr. Mulroney's spokesman since 1995?

[Luc Lavoie]

Yes.

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

And he never told you that he had held that meeting with Mr. Schreiber?

[Luc Lavoie]

No.

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Did he subsequently talk to you about that meeting?

[Luc Lavoie]

No, I never heard about it.

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

It was only through the media that you learned about that meeting?

[Luc Lavoie]

Absolutely.