Information & Ethics Committee on May 6th, 2010

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Yes, your point was that we could report it to the House if we have a problem.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

And I want to go back to that, sir.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

And sir, the committee--not the chair--will decide if we do that when we finish our meeting with this witness. Okay? We're going to deal with that at the end of the questioning, because we need to know what questions are asked and which questions have been answered or were refused answers, and we don't know. We can't anticipate those questions, but I have noted that the witness has not yet responded to any questions.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

I'm just suggesting that in this report, sir--

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

So that is.... But in the report--

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

In the report, Mr. Chair--

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

--which we will talk about when we finish--

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

There is conflicting legal advice coming from the law clerk and coming from the Information Commissioner.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Well, okay, thank you. Sir, I hear you and I understand, and we will, if the committee so decides, make a report to the House on this matter. But we're not going to do that now. We'll do it when we've completed with the witnesses. Okay?

Thank you.

Madame Freeman, I'm sorry, but we're going to carry on with this witness until we have the full normal time, the two rounds. We'll have to reschedule.

Madame Freeman, please.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

There are currently allegations regarding systemic political interference by ministers' offices to block, delay or obstruct the release of information.

My first question is for Mr. Togneri.

Is there a procedure or directive in place to handle access to information requests at the office of the Minister of Public Works and Government Services, to which you belonged?

[Sébastien Togneri]

Thank you for the question.

First of all, I want to say that I'm not refusing to answer any questions. I was asked for a legal opinion, and I said that I am not a lawyer and therefore I have no opinion on legal matters. I was also asked--

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Excuse me, Mr. Chair, point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Madame Freeman, please.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

My question is very clear and does not require a legal opinion.

Is there a directive?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Madame, that's not a point of order.

Your time is.... We'll get back to it.

Mr. Togneri, I would appreciate it if you wouldn't go back to some other questioner's questions and try to explain what you said or didn't say. We have a transcript.

Madame Freeman has asked you a question.

Madame, would you please repeat the question for the witness? I'm going to ask the witness to please respond to your question.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Mr. Chair, if I restate my question, I want to keep the time I was allotted, in other words, seven minutes. I already asked the question. If I restate it, I want to keep my seven minutes. I would ask that you reset the clock to zero. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will repeat my question. There are currently allegations of systemic political interference by ministers' offices to block, delay or obstruct the release of information. Were you aware of that happening, or did you receive directives to handle access to information requests?

[Sébastien Togneri]

Mr. Chair, I want to thank the member for her question.

I would need some clarification. Are you talking about directives from the department, directives from who exactly?

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

That is precisely my question. Is there a procedure or directive in place to handle access to information requests? Who does that come from?

[Sébastien Togneri]

Are you talking about Public Works and Government Services Canada?

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

You are here because you intervened in a report that was supposed to be released, you intervened to block information. So I am asking you where the directive came from. From your minister?

[Sébastien Togneri]

I did not receive any directives from anyone.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

So what you are telling us today under oath is that you acted contrary to the law and contrary to what your minister expected of you, on your own initiative.

[Sébastien Togneri]

Mr. Chair, could I just have moment?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Yes.

[Sébastien Togneri]

Mr. Chair, I never said that I contravened the act, and, in my opinion, that question gives rise to hasty conclusions. That is my answer.