Information & Ethics Committee on June 3rd, 2010

[Christian Paradis, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Chair, a point of order.

The situation is clear. I am here, I am sitting on the committee as a member of Parliament. If my opposition colleagues do not want to allow me to speak, Mr. Chair, the Standing Orders are clear: the committee can remove me. It is as simple as that. The standing orders say that I have the right to speak. I appreciate your flexibility in letting me speak. But if members on the other side feel that I do not have the right to speak, even if I am here as a member, they can remove me. Of course I do not want that. I know that you know me and I appreciate the fact that you are flexible and will let me speak.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

The rules are clear, Minister, as you well know.

[Christian Paradis, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Je sais que--

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Sir, the translators can't deal with two people talking at the same time.

[Christian Paradis, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Okay. I will go more slowly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

No, I heard you.

Minister, first of all, that's not a point of order. It's debate.

Secondly, yes, you have the right to speak.

[Christian Paradis, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

That's good.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

But Mr. Easter has the floor now.

[Christian Paradis, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Thank you.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The fact of the matter is the minister's remarks that he was reading from were clearly in his capacity as a minister and were designed in terms of the message—it seems to me to be what my motion was all about—as a way to block, delay, obstruct, and try to manipulate the message in such a way as to why parliamentary committees should not be able to hear from Mr. Togneri, Ms. Andrews, and Mr. Soudas.

If we want to invite the minister to come before the committee, then we will do so, and we'll expect him to be here. When we invite other people to come before the committee, as is our right, we expect them to be here and not to be shut out from coming by an edict from the Prime Minister's Office.

I agree with the Bloc decision. The minister can sit here as a member of Parliament. He can question witnesses. He can get into the debate. But as for the statement he tried to make before this committee, he is not Mr. Togneri. In my view, he can't give us the facts in terms of what Mr. Togneri has done. He may be able to answer some questions when we invite him to be here.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Mr. Easter, excuse me, sir.

On a point of order, Mr. Lukiwski.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

I would like a ruling, Mr. Chair. I think it would certainly put this committee on an even keel, at least.

Is it not the right of the minister to have the ability to speak here? It's not permission that needs to be granted to the minister. It is his right, is it not, Chair?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Yes, it is, as an MP.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

All right. I think it's worth examining.

First of all, all members of the House are welcome to attend and sit at the table of any committee at any time, unless it's a special committee, such as the Board of Internal Economy or something like that.

The committee can agree to hear from a member who's not signed in as one of the spots. You can have ten members from a particular party here, but they cannot vote, they cannot move motions, etc.

Normally, in terms of speaking lists in committees, the practice has always been that the slots are predetermined and the permanent members or those who are signed in will indicate who's going to speak.

There's no question that the member has a right to speak, but the members have indicated that it's not with regard to the matter of the order of business we have before us. They passed a motion to move on to committee business. We are no longer there.

If the minister is going to speak further, it really has to be on committee business.

I think we understand each other.

There's another point of order from Ms. McLeod.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

On a point of order, you indicated that we passed a motion to move on. I've been listening very carefully, and I don't believe we actually had a motion to carry on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Yes, it was part of the tabling that we move on. We tabled that. There's no other business, so we are automatically there, okay? Thank you.

Mr. Easter, are you finished?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

That's okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

We have Mr. Siksay, Monsieur Desnoyers, and Madam Davidson.

Mr. Siksay.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I just want to say that it's the committee that determines its agenda. The government or the minister is not going to determine our agenda for us. With all respect to the minister, he's not on the agenda today. He's certainly not on the part of the agenda we have moved to. He fully has the right to participate in our discussion of our future agenda, if that really turns his crank. He can participate in that discussion, but we have determined our agenda. We've determined who we were going to hear from. We've determined what's on that agenda, and I think we should move to that.

I don't want to deny the minister his ability to participate in that discussion. I can't imagine that he doesn't have something more important than that, but if he wants to participate in it, that's his right.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Monsieur Desnoyers, go ahead, please.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I concur with my colleagues. I feel that if he wants to take part in the debate on committee business, he can do so as a member of Parliament. There is a motion to that effect.

We must now stick to the agenda. At the moment, all we are doing is holding up the work of the committee. That is clear.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Thank you.

Madam Davidson, go ahead, please.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

Given that we do have the minister before us today, and given that the government has announced in the House that ministers shall be appearing to answer for the conduct of staff in their offices, for whom they're responsible, I move that the committee invite Minister Paradis to immediately present an opening statement and answer questions from committee on the subject matter of this meeting.