Information & Ethics Committee on Oct. 6th, 2011

[Howard Bernstein]

They do not have to. They're a private company.

Now, I would question that as well, by the way, because all broadcasters in this country are on welfare. Every Canadian-produced show gets Canadian tax credits. Every Canadian-produced show gets funding from government. Generally, 35% to 50% of all shows produced in Canada use money that comes from governments at one level or another. So the argument could be made that, for that portion, CTV and Global should have to open their books as well. Having said that, I know the reality is that there's no.... Funds are funds. How do you know where one dollar comes from?

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Let's get away from the books and back to freedom of information.

[Howard Bernstein]

Well, my point is that freedom of information could work. Theoretically you could argue that freedom of information should be made available from CTV and Global as well.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Do you see it a bit unfair that one news agency, being in the business, is trying to request information from another news agency? Don't you find that bizarre, that this could be an example of one news agency trying to get a competitive edge or trying to do something to discredit the other news agency?

[Howard Bernstein]

I don't think it's bizarre at all. I think it's normal business practice taken to its ends—taken to a fanatical end, but I think it's normal business practice. I suspect that Boeing is trying to find information about how they build planes in Europe, and vice versa. I'm sure Embraer--

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

They don't have access to government freedom of information to do so.

[Howard Bernstein]

I'm saying if they did, they would.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Does that make it right?

[Howard Bernstein]

It doesn't make it wrong either. I mean, competition is competition, and you do whatever you have to do. I think the business of business is business.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

But what's good for one person has to be good for the other, though.

[Howard Bernstein]

The argument that's easy to make is that the other is not asking for a billion dollars from the taxpayers.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Now we're bringing it back to that.

[Howard Bernstein]

How can you separate them?

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

If you support public broadcasting and you support the concept of CBC--which we do, and we think it's money well spent--then I find it very disturbing that we have two news agencies competing against each other and both are not playing on the same playing field.

And on both sides--and you can make the argument--I think what you're saying is that it's unfair that CBC is getting public funding.

[Howard Bernstein]

Sun TV and Quebecor would argue that it's unfair that CBC gets the public funding and that they have to compete with them, so they go out of their way to do whatever they can to discredit CBC.

It's journalistic only in the sense that they're looking for information to use against the CBC in a journalistic fashion. It's not about CBC's journalism. I don't think they care about CBC's journalism. They might care that they might think they're left of centre, which, by the way, I have never believed. They might think they're unfair to the government, but that's not what they're going after. You wouldn't find that out from freedom of information anyway.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Ms. Denton, I have a couple of questions for you. Are you familiar with how many requests are before the courts?

[Kady Denton]

In the first year there were 400 to 500. I do know--and it's curious--that the CBC has a department of seven people now just to handle the requests that are coming in primarily from Sun Media. This is costly. I can think of other things that seven people could be doing, but there you have it. This is so that the requests can be dealt with in an expedient manner, as is required.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Ms. Denton, how many people are involved with your group in Peterborough? Would you give us some information about your group in Peterborough?

[Kady Denton]

Okay.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

I'm sorry, but your time is up, Mr. Andrews.

Could you give a brief answer, please?

[Kady Denton]

Right. It's a grassroots movement. Thousands are involved. I speak here today on behalf of the spirit of the group, in that they value CBC and want it to be cherished and valued. I can speak on these points to a smaller group, but the general group, I Love CBC--Peterborough, is a hefty-sized one.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Thank you, Ms. Denton.

Mr. Butt, you have seven minutes.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Mr. Bernstein and Ms. Denton, thank you for coming today.

Mr. Bernstein, maybe you can expand. In your opening address, you said that the CBC is a web of empires. Can you expand on what you mean by that? More specifically, do you believe that the way the CBC has been structured is leading to their lack of interest in participating fully in access to information requests?

[Howard Bernstein]

First, to clarify, I said that in an answer, not in my opening address.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

I'm sorry.