Evidence of meeting #19 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was site.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1:40 p.m.
Chief Operating Officer, Entreprise MindGeek Canada
We were doing all of our reporting as per our legal counsel at the time and we continue to do so today.
1:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you, Mr. Viersen.
We're going to turn to Ms. Lattanzio now.
February 5th, 2021 / 1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Patricia Lattanzio Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, gentlemen, for being here today.
I, too, as a woman, as a mother of two young ladies, like they say in good old French, was estomaquée to hear the testimony from the young woman to our committee this week.
I reached the following conclusion in my mind: It's unfair that the onus is on children to have to go to great lengths to be able to report to you what is going on. Even when they do, you—and I listened carefully—said you have a review team that goes through these tapes, and then you say that you have to revise them—re-review again, Mr. Tassillo—again.
This is morally wrong. I'm not even looking at it in terms of legislation. This is morally wrong. Why is it that the onus is placed on children? It should be up to you to be able, as soon as you get a video, to decide and make a decision to not even post it. How do you go from just posting whatever video you get and then turning the onus on children to plead with you to be able to take it down? I'd like to hear you on that.
1:45 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Entreprise MindGeek Canada
Maybe I can step back and explain the level of responsibilities enough to make it clear to the whole committee.
Level one responsibility is that when somebody uploads a video to our website, he or she agrees to comply with our terms of service, which clearly state that he must have the consent, and that he has to be—
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
Patricia Lattanzio Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
—you need to own up to your responsibility. If you, from the onset, recognize that it is child pornography, or it is non-consensual material, you should not, from the onset, put it on to your site.
Am I clear on that?
1:45 p.m.
Chief Operating Officer, Entreprise MindGeek Canada
Ms. Lattanzio, I'm going to address you more as an individual than, as you guys are seeing us right now, as a business.
What we do is we take this extremely seriously. I know it just sounds like words, because this is the first time the committee and everyone else has heard us. Since the beginning, since the inception of the company, we've always worked on different ways to make this better. I agree with you, as a parent, and I agree with everyone on the panel. I remember—
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
Patricia Lattanzio Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Mr. Tassillo, I don't have much time. I just want to get to the crux of it in terms of the onus.
1:45 p.m.
Chief Operating Officer, Entreprise MindGeek Canada
I am trying to get.... There is—
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
Patricia Lattanzio Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
What is your opinion on putting the onus on your company to be able to vet from the onset and take away the onus on children?
1:45 p.m.
Chief Operating Officer, Entreprise MindGeek Canada
I would never put the onus on the children. We are putting the onus on us. That's why we invest millions and millions of dollars every year to avoid this getting on to the site. If that video gets on the site, the way we view it is that for everyone who would view that video, I have now lost for the rest of my life as a customer. We try to take—
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
Patricia Lattanzio Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Mr. Tassillo, how much have you paid in legal settlements with regard to both children and adults for distributing their images to the public since 2008? Can you give us an amount of money that you've paid out in legal settlements for this kind of mishap?
1:45 p.m.
Chief Operating Officer, Entreprise MindGeek Canada
I honestly don't know the number, but I'm going to go out on—
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
Patricia Lattanzio Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Can you provide that to us? Since 2008, please?
1:45 p.m.
Chief Operating Officer, Entreprise MindGeek Canada
I am sure I could come up with a number, but I can assure you that number would be way below what I spend annually to protect the children and to protect my site, and to keep it a safe place.
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
Patricia Lattanzio Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Can you tell me what you've done to protect the children since 2008? Can you give us examples of what you've done to protect children?
1:45 p.m.
Chief Operating Officer, Entreprise MindGeek Canada
We've created all of these different processes. We've integrated all of these different softwares. We have the human moderation team. I believe sometimes we're getting caught in some of the details. I understand the frustration you all have, but this is a problem that's bigger than just our site. This is a problem with how on the Internet people are misusing platforms. We're trying to create a safe environment for people to consume adult content, and we understand there are people out there who are trying to misuse these platforms.
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
Patricia Lattanzio Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Mr. Tassillo, you spoke about putting standards into place. What are your standards?
1:45 p.m.
Chief Operating Officer, Entreprise MindGeek Canada
Our standards are very clear. We will not allow anything to do with CSAM. We want nothing to do with anything non-consensual, and then we have a bunch of sub-standards that go in very granularly into a bunch of different niches. I don't have them all off the top of my head, but we have very specific standards that our human moderators follow.
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
Patricia Lattanzio Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
But if your system and standards do not work, why are you continuing? Is it because it is too lucrative for you?