Information & Ethics Committee on April 16th, 2024

[Nancy Bélanger]

As I explained in my opening remarks, we made 123 presentations in the past year. Our team is very small. We give a lot of advice, we do a lot of customer service. A team of five employees works directly with lobbyists to make sure they understand the plan and help them register. More than 7,000 lobbyists are registered. We also do a lot of outreach; in fact, that's a big part of my job.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Do you think the Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying would be able to maintain a second registry listing foreign agents, obviously provided it had additional funding?

[Nancy Bélanger]

To do that, we would need not only additional funding, but also expertise in the area of national security, which we do not have.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Is it conceivable? A few countries do it, but I'm a little skeptical, I have to admit.

[Nancy Bélanger]

Personally, I would not want to have that mandate. Under the Lobbying Act, lobbying is a legitimate activity that must be transparent. Keeping a foreign agent registry is not a very positive step, more like the opposite. The approach and the objectives of the two registries would be different.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you.

[Nancy Bélanger]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Villemure and Ms. Bélanger.

Mr. Green, over to you for six minutes.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Bélanger, I'm going to put to you a series of questions in a rather rapid way. I'm going to try to get as much out of this round as I possibly can, so if you could be as succinct as you can, that would be super helpful. If I intervene, it's not out of disrespect; it's just to get on to the next question.

What is the purpose of not allowing registered lobbyists to provide sponsored travel?

[Nancy Bélanger]

It's to ensure that there is no perception of conflict of interest and a sense of obligation from the public office holder to the lobbyist.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Would it be safe to say that those who offer sponsored travel and are paying for trips—lavish accommodations, food and all of these things—have a motive?

[Nancy Bélanger]

I don't know if they have a motive, but certainly if sponsored travel is offered, there's a reason for it. If they plan on lobbying afterwards, there would be a cooling-off period.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

You mentioned a perception of a conflict of interest. I think having a perception of a conflict of interest is important because there would be a rational perception by the public that MPs could be influenced on an issue pertaining to a country or organization. Is that correct?

[Nancy Bélanger]

That's correct.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

There's an almost limitless amount that could be spent in this regard.

Can members of the public make complaints to your office about suspected breaches of the code?

[Nancy Bélanger]

Absolutely. I do receive some.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Are they informed of when you are undertaking an investigation?

[Nancy Bélanger]

No. They're informed that I will review the matter, and if it concludes in a report to Parliament, they'll be made aware at that time.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Are you aware of any registered lobbyists who have sponsored MP travel since the new rules came into effect last year?

[Nancy Bélanger]

Yes, and I know what you're referring to. It's that trip in July of last year.

Do I have time to speak to that matter? Would you like me to speak to that matter?

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Yes, please do.

[Nancy Bélanger]

I did receive consent from CIJA to speak to this issue.

As you all know, the new code came into force on July 1. In May, they did ask me if I could suspend the application of the code for the month of July in light of the fact that they had two trips already organized.

I did not think it was fair to tell them not to pursue that trip since it had been organized for more than six months, I think. However, I did tell them that if they were going to pursue the trip, there would be a cooling-off period with respect to the individuals they brought on it, in light of the amount spent on those trips.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

What was the amount?

[Nancy Bélanger]

I think it's in the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's report. I think it was between $15,000 and $20,000 for some of them, if I recall correctly.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

For the purposes of this committee, I will state on the record that we're talking about Scott Aitchison, Kody Blois and Valerie Bradford, who took a trip sponsored by CIJA after these provisions were put in place.

This is an exemption. Is that correct? Is this an exemption that was granted?