Evidence of meeting #112 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was report.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
Exactly. It was an exemption just for the month of July in light of the fact that the trip had been organized ahead of—
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
I told them the cooling-off period would be up to two years in light of the amounts.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Was this in legislation and law, or is this just the policy you provided in response to this particular case?
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
This is a code of conduct; it's not law. I did inform them in writing that there should be a two-year cooling-off period. That cooling-off period—
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
It was “must”. It would be two years for the individuals who would have gone.
You are correct that there was a monthly communication report last February for a meeting that would have occurred in January with one of the members of Parliament who accepted a trip. CIJA advised me in February that they realized this individual had been invited to a presentation by CIJA by mistake. They were forthright in letting me know that they had made a mistake and would not do that again. It was an oversight that the MP had been invited and I accepted that explanation.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
Yes—well, it was inadvertent. All members of Parliament who were part of the mission had been invited. This particular member did come to the meeting, and he should not have been there.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Would the member have been informed of his obligations?
We're talking about Scott Aitchison, I presume.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Would he not have been informed of his obligations when taking a trip of $10,000 to $15,000? He was then lobbied after by this organization. Was he aware?
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
I don't regulate any one of you. However, I did send to all of you a one-pager about the impact of sponsored travel on all of you, so I would suspect he received that information.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
To be fair to the member, you created an exemption for CIJA. No other organization presumably got this exemption. They got it. They sponsored three MPs we know of who made this trip, with upwards of $45,000 to $50,000 in gifts, in a way. Then there were parameters put on it.
With that exemption, was he provided guidelines on the two-year cooling-off period, or is he in breach of the code?
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
Mr. Aitchison could not be in breach of my code. The code applies to lobbyists.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Would it not be an ethical breach for him to follow up with lobbyists he received a trip from?
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
That you would have to ask Mr. von Finckenstein. I don't know.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Green.
That concludes our first round of questioning of six minutes.
Ms. Bélanger, you made reference in your opening statement to reviewing the act itself. It hasn't been done since 2012. Just for the benefit of members, there are two ways we can do that. In 2012, there was an order of reference from the House of Commons for the act to be looked at. That was the last time it was done. It can also be done at committee through a motion of committee to study the act if we want to. That's something to perhaps consider going forward. In several appearances that Ms. Bélanger has had before the committee, she's made reference to the need to look into the act subsequent to the 2012 review.
Mr. Barrett, with that, I'm going to you for five minutes. Go ahead.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Commissioner, I want to circle back to some of the names and associations that I listed at the end of my first round.
Brian Topp, who is associated with the NDP, and Don Guy, who is a Liberal, both collect cheques from Loblaws. Last year, their firm GT and Company met twice with the Prime Minister's director of policy, John Brodhead. I outlined earlier an additional connection between Mr. Guy and the Prime Minister's Office.
If I were to send a request for you to review this matter, would you undertake a preliminary review?
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Mr. Gurratan Singh is the brother of the leader of the fourth party in the House of Commons, Mr. Jagmeet Singh. Mr. Gurratan Singh, of course, collects a paycheque as a vice-president of Crestview Strategy. They are the lobbyist of record for Metro Richelieu Inc., which is one of the grocery giants.
If I were to send you this and request for you to look into it, would you initiate an inquiry?
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
Every allegation that I receive I look at.
Conservative
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
I'm aware of most of the facts that you are referring to today. I always look at things. I also work with lobbies to ensure that they understand the code's obligations.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Have you had to proactively communicate with Mr. Topp with his NDP ties, Mr. Don Guy or Mr. Gurratan Singh?