Evidence of meeting #112 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was report.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Okay.
You also have the mandate, under section 45 of your act, to initiate your own investigations. Based on what you have learned or read so far, or based on information received with respect to the arrive scam, is there any prospect that you will be looking to do an investigation into what has transpired with our broken procurement system?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
The ArriveCAN issue is a procurement issue. I don't deal with procurement, as you know. I deal with conflicts of interest.
The parties involved in it so far and everybody who has been mentioned are not subject either to the act or to the code of conflict. Therefore, there's no reason for me to look into it and start an investigation or anything.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Very well. Thank you.
How many agency investigations has your office initiated in the last three years?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I don't have the number. I can get it to you. I'm sorry. The last three years—
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Is it fair to say that they're largely complaint-driven?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Can you recall the last time you were involved in or saw in a review of your office's records an occasion when your office initiated an investigation on its own?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
There have certainly been none during my tenure.
Melanie, do you recall a time?
Director, Communications, Outreach and Planning, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Past commissioners initiated investigations on their own accord based on information they came across without there being direct requests from a member of Parliament or a senator, but I would have to get back to you on the exact number of them.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Brock.
We'll go to Ms. Khalid for five minutes.
Go ahead, please.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Thank you very much, Chair.
Thank you, Mr. von Finckenstein, and congratulations on your appointment.
I want to ask you today about Jenni Byrne + Associates and its implications.
I know Ms. Byrne has claimed that she only lobbies at the provincial level, but the media has reported that just days after Pierre Poilievre's election as leader of the Conservative Party, the lobbying firm run by Pierre Poilievre's top strategist, Jenni Byrne, established a second company, Forecheck Strategies, which is housed out of the same office, for the purposes of lobbying federally.
Are you aware of this situation?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I'm not responsible for lobbying. Ms. Bélanger will appear after me. You should ask her these questions.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Have you been in touch with any of the Conservative members with respect to this issue at all?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
As I said, I deal with conflicts of interest. Neither Ms. Byrne nor...is responsible under the Conflict of Interest Act or the code. All of these activities she's doing are totally outside my remit.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Can I ask you what the definition of a minister's staff is, as it applies to the code?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Ministerial staff are, obviously, people the minister hires to advise him. Yes, ministerial staff are subject to the Conflict of Interest Act. There's no question about it.
I don't know what further definition to give you. It's somebody the minister hires to advise him in the function of his office.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
We talk about the benefits received or the relationships that may have a conflict of interest because of how a political party acts and how it interacts with lobbying firms. Do you not see that as a conflict of interest at all or something that you should be concerned about?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
You have to give me a specific factual situation and the details of what you think is the conflict. If it is in violation or possibly in violation of the act, obviously we will look at it. However, you're speaking purely hypothetically and throwing a name at me, so I'm sorry; I can't give you a more complete answer.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
You're asking for specific facts. Reports have indicated that Ms. Byrne attends regular caucus meetings, meetings that are typically reserved for Conservative members of Parliament, senators and top staff. The reporting also details Ms. Byrne's active participation in morning strategy calls within the opposition leader's office. It seems to me that there is a specific relationship there and that should be covered by the act.
Would you not agree with that?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Ms. Byrne is a private consultant, is she not?
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
She's a private consultant who happens to be the top strategist for a political party with specific interests in her company and her lobbying.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Where is the conflict here?
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
That's exactly what I'm asking you, sir. You're the expert here. I would like to have a better understanding of how it is that a private company can have political influence and strategize with a political party and why you don't question how that occurs, what implications there are, private or public, and what kind of political influence is happening there.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Surely my job is to make sure that a public official does not abuse information and create a conflict of interest. How they conduct their own political activity—whom they consult, etc.—is not part of it.
I fail to see, from what you just put forward to me.... You invite these people to your sessions. If you want that, that's your problem. What has this got to do with your official duties? I don't understand it. I'm sorry, but I don't see how this—