Evidence of meeting #145 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was data.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Okay.
I'm sorry. You're still stuck with me.
I'll go back to the algorithm you mentioned. To my understanding, TikTok Canada's algorithm would be no different from the algorithm being used by TikTok in the United States and in other countries, at least according to what I've heard from TikTok. One of the issues related to what I understand has happened in TikTok is that considerable misinformation has been floated for the U.S. elections in 2016, 2020 and possibly 2024 through the TikTok platform.
Has CSIS looked at what we would need to do to protect ourselves in the Canadian election that we expect to have next year, in 2025?
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
CSIS has been very preoccupied with the concerns around foreign interference in elections, as I'm sure you're aware. That includes the possibility for threat actors to use social media platforms to advance disinformation or other narratives harmful to Canada's interests. I would say that's not a platform-specific concern that we have. That's more around the intent and plans of foreign adversaries to use platforms, however they might get their—
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
I'm talking specifically about the Government of China, a foreign adversary—we have a special parliamentary committee dealing with China—using their algorithm on TikTok, which we understand could be controlled by the Chinese government, or certainly Chinese sources, to try to help one side or another in a Canadian election.
Conservative
Liberal
Conservative
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
My succinct response is that this is one of the concerns we worry about, based on the PRC's law and the use of TikTok.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Housefather.
Mr. Villemure, you have the floor for six minutes.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for being here today. I think your remarks are clear.
There was a reference to a comprehensive review. What is a comprehensive review?
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
What is a review?
For us, I think it depends. In the context of an investigation, this might be an investigation into a particular threat actor. In the context of TikTok and the ICA, this would be a review of the activities of a particular company, its ties to foreign governments and any particular data that CSIS might have in its intelligence holdings that might inform the potential for a foreign actor to make use of a transaction contrary to Canada's interests.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Could we talk a bit more about the national security risks that led to the liquidation of TikTok?
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Yes, a little bit, but as I said earlier, I can't give specific details.
I will say that in this case, as mentioned, there are concerns about the use of TikTok as a platform more generally. TikTok Canada is obviously affiliated with that platform. Those two things are not unrelated.
I can't speak to the specific concerns we would have with respect to TikTok Canada, given the issues I raised earlier.
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
The reason for my question is simple. In the past, national security has sometimes been interpreted very broadly and used as a pretext.
Can you tell us about ByteDance and its shareholder? It owns TikTok, as we know, but does it also have other activities?
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Are you talking about ByteDance's activities in general?
Bloc
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Okay.
In general, ByteDance is a Chinese company. That is the main preoccupation for us in the context of this review. It certainly operates the TikTok application, which is a global application that hosts many, many millions of users. It is subject to the PRC national security regulations. It has the potential to be used by China contrary to Canada's interests.
I'm sorry, I don't know if that answers your question.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
We often hear about the fact that ByteDance's board of directors is made up of French people, among others, but I believe that the founder of TikTok is still very present in the shareholding.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
I don't know. I wouldn't want to give inaccurate information.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Apart from sharing information with the Chinese Communist Party, are there other forms of collaboration between TikTok, ByteDance and the Chinese government?
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
As Mr. Cooper said, there are some theoretical concerns there. We know that China's national security law applies to ByteDance and the operations of TikTok.
I can't speak to specific intelligence we have that links to anything concrete that we know through intelligence channels.