Evidence of meeting #38 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was requests.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:30 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
They can refer it to the RCMP for investigation.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
As an example, in those seven cases that you've been involved in, what type of obstruction was involved? Was it altering documents or refusing to turn over documents? As we saw with Vice-Admiral Mark Norman, he was—
5:30 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
What we see the most is destruction of documents. These are documents that we know existed and have disappeared.
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
Okay.
You were talking about the statutory review of the act. We have subsection 67.1(1), which lists all the obstructions, ways that would be considered obstruction of access to information. What changes do you need to see in legislation to give you more powers to investigate, or to make direct referral to the RCMP?
5:35 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
I don't think my jurisdiction should include investigation of criminal offences, because you have to be able to separate those two.
What I would like to be able to do is directly send more information.... Right now, the act says that all of the information is confidential, so I have a very limited amount of information that I can share with these bodies and the Attorney General. I also would like to be able to refer directly to either provincial or federal levels of police forces instead of having to go through the Attorney General. This is something that I think would be very helpful and more direct.
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
You want to be allowed to go directly to the RCMP.
5:35 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
That's it.
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
Okay, we'll make a note of that.
One of the other things I'm looking at are the ways that ATIPs are skirted around by departments and ministerial offices. We talked already about the solicitor-client privilege and making use of that. We talked about using cabinet confidences as a way to get around it. We often see that they stamp it “secret”, and then they cannot redact the document because they put the “secret” stamp on it. Under procurement, I know sometimes they say, “Well, those are proprietary rights. You can't look at it.”
What do we need to do in the act to give you the power and resources to scrutinize those types of ATIPs and whether or not documents should be released for public consumption?
5:35 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
I already have access to legal opinions and solicitor-client privilege documents that are claimed to be privileged. I do not have access to cabinet confidence at this point, so that's something. Canada is one of only a few commonwealth countries that don't have an independent review of cabinet confidence. I think this is something that Canadians would appreciate.
Again, it's about increasing the trust of Canadians in our government. I keep saying that I'm not issuing those documents or disclosing the documents. I'm only reviewing and making a determination on whether or not the exclusion has been properly applied. This is something that I think would be very helpful.
With respect to the other exemptions, we already have access to all the documents, and we can compare the redaction with respect to the full documents.
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
Do you have the ability now to look at secret and top secret documents?
5:35 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
I can review all the documents, yes.
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
That's including the ones that they might say are proprietary information.
5:35 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
Well, sometimes we have to ask them to go and get it from a contractor or another private entity. If there's a contract between those two and there are functions being done for the institutions, I believe that the institutions are entitled to get those documents as well.
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
What type of enforcement do we need to shorten the timelines? It's supposed to be 30 days; in one example, as I said, the Department of Justice took 270 days. I got a call from National Defence on one that I filed two years ago; they still haven't filled it yet.
What do we do to make sure that there are penalties in place for foot-dragging?
5:35 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
I think we just need more resources. We need more innovation, and we definitely need more leaders who believe in access and tell their institutions that they should have the resources for that.
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
October 5th, 2022 / 5:35 p.m.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Mr. Chair, I would like to have 30 seconds to speak, if possible, and ask a question about the committee meeting today.
You said you wanted this meeting to end at 6:00. The notice of meeting did not say anything about us discussing the committee's work. So I am wondering whether it would be possible instead to allow members to ask questions in another round, like the last one we had.
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Pat Kelly
The chair does have a fair bit of discretion in how we allocate this. I don't want members to be denied the opportunity to ask questions. I'm going to complete the round as per the rubric that was adopted by parties at the beginning. When we get through this, I think there will be time beyond that, if members do wish to ask other questions. That is why I said I would do a final call before adjourning the meeting. We'll try to make sure that all members can ask their questions.
With that, I will go to Mr. Fergus, and after that we'll carry on.
Go ahead, Mr. Fergus.
5:40 p.m.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Thank you for these "Bezan-style" five minutes, Mr. Chair.
Thank you as well, Ms. Gill.
Ms. Maynard, I would like to talk some more about what we were discussing earlier. I have two questions for you and I might interrupt you during your first answer so I can ask you my second question.
My first question is this. What percentage of the information that is provided in response to access requests is repeated? Is it five per cent, ten per cent, 20 per cent, or more?
5:40 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
I would say it is a majority of requests, now.
5:40 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
Yes, because it is rare for a person to request a particular briefing note. Instead, they ask for a briefing note, an email, a text message, or a video on a particular subject. The person then receives a large volume of information in which there are often a number of duplicated items.