Information & Ethics Committee on Nov. 19th, 2025

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON]

Would you be able to do it within a week from today?

[Michael Sabia]

Yes.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON]

Wonderful.

[Michael Sabia]

That's subject to my caveat about the four.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON]

Thank you.

Are you able to tell us, again in writing, who is responsible for assisting you and the chief of staff to the Prime Minister in administering or enforcing the screen?

[Michael Sabia]

Sure.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON]

This is information that would generally be available through access to information requests. I'm not looking for any personal information about the individuals. I'm looking for who is pushing the buttons and pulling the levers. Would you be able to provide that?

[Michael Sabia]

Yes, absolutely. I can share more of what's here—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

[Michael Sabia]

—for at least the senior ones in the Privy Council Office, if you want those, but we're happy to give you them in writing.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON]

Okay. Again, would by this time next week be okay?

[Michael Sabia]

That is not a problem.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON]

Terrific.

Would you be open to regularly providing public details of the instances where the screen is triggered, in as much detail as could be made public? I appreciate that it's not required under the act, but based on your willingness to discuss some of it today, I think you appreciate how it can enhance public confidence in this process.

[Michael Sabia]

Yes, I think we can try to do that within reason, as long as I don't have to come back here and do it all the time.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON]

If we got the information proactively, we wouldn't need to send the invites, though you're welcome to join us for coffee down here any time, sir.

I have two more questions with two minutes left. The first one is a rehash.

I'm wondering if you can take one minute to tell me how, if you don't have the complete list of all of Brookfield's investments, you can guarantee that you're screening all the conflicts, because you don't ask the Ethics Commissioner in every instance.

[Michael Sabia]

We do ask the Ethics Commissioner.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON]

You don't ask about everything that comes across the Prime Minister's desk.

[Michael Sabia]

With anything that comes across in the relevant sectors where, after examination of the file, we think there's a possibility, we do.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON]

Okay.

Artificial intelligence, modular construction, heat pumps, home retrofits and many of the things in the Prime Minister's housing plan.... He is not blind to his future payments from things like the Brookfield Global Transition Fund: Even though his controlled assets are in a blind trust, the payments are going to happen anyway. Any decision he takes affecting any of those things I just listed—some of which he's made announcements about, including on housing and artificial intelligence....

[Michael Sabia]

Yes, but draw a distinction, Mr. Barrett. Saying that the Government of Canada wants to build modular homes or is interested in building mass timber industrial capability in Canada, or whatever.... Announcing a priority is not the same thing. It's very different from the Prime Minister's being involved in the specific allocation of government support or government contracting to a specific enterprise. That's where the conflict arises.

In those circumstances, if there was a risk or a possibility that it would be happening with one of the companies on the list, the Prime Minister would be screened out and not able to participate in that decision with respect to the allocation of federal funding, support or whatever to that specific enterprise. He would be screened out.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON]

Or a sector.

[Michael Sabia]

You can't allocate government support to just a sector. It ends up going to individual entities and individual companies. When you get down to the project basis, as opposed to strategy and priorities.... Strategy and priorities are one thing, but specific allocation to projects is another.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Sabia.

Ms. Lapointe, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Sabia, thank you very much for all the details and clarifications you've been providing for a while now. It really helps us a lot in our current study.

Could you confirm to the committee that decisions regarding the scope or interpretation of a conflict of interest screen are made by the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner? How does it work? Do you think it's important to set up that screen with the Commissioner?

[Michael Sabia]

If I understand your questions correctly, yes, I think it is very important to apply a screen and to work in full co-operation with the Commissioner.