Information & Ethics Committee on Nov. 19th, 2025

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Mr. Sabia, we may have to get back to this. I have to give equal time to each member of the committee. I'm sorry, Mr. Barrett and Mr. Sabia.

[Michael Sabia]

If it makes you feel any better, my answers will be equally long for everybody.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Ms. Lapointe, you may go ahead for six minutes.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Sabia, welcome to the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. It's a pleasure to have you with us. Thank you for being here to speak with the committee.

Can you talk a bit more about your role as Clerk of the Privy Council? What does it involve?

[Michael Sabia]

The Clerk of the Privy Council essentially has three responsibilities.

One, I am responsible for the entire public service.

Two, I am secretary to the cabinet, a role requiring that I work extensively with the members of cabinet, in other words, the ministry.

Three, I am deputy minister to the prime minister. That role consists of developing the public service and ensuring that it is better equipped for the future. Given how fast things around the world are changing, we must change. That requires me to work extensively with government ministers to ensure close co-operation and the smooth running of government. As deputy minister to the prime minister, I act as an adviser to the Prime Minister, and I am responsible for arranging meetings on the public service and Privy Council Office meetings.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you. That's helpful.

You may not know this, but I was an MP from 2015 to 2019. Between my two terms as an MP, I worked in the Prime Minister's Office.

[Michael Sabia]

You have a good grasp of the role of the Clerk of the Privy Council, then.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

It's helpful to hear about what you and your team do. Thank you.

In your opening remarks, you mentioned your role as administrator of the Prime Minister's conflict of interest screen. Can you tell us more about that?

[Michael Sabia]

As I told Mr. Barrett, we now have government-wide mechanisms to identify apparent conflicts of interest. My role as administrator is to work with the Privy Council Office team and the other deputy ministers to identify potential conflicts of interest and decide to put a screen in place to protect the Prime Minister and the office of Prime Minister from a possible or apparent conflict of interest.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

You said that you share the role of administering the conflict of interest screen with the Prime Minister's chief of staff, Marc‑André Blanchard. Could you please explain the difference between your role and Mr. Blanchard's?

[Michael Sabia]

On my end, I am responsible for the public service. Our role, our responsibility, our duty, is to provide our professional advice, so the fruit of the public service's labour, to the government and directly to the Prime Minister. On his end, Mr. Blanchard is responsible for managing the political offices of the government.

I manage the public service and the advice we provide, whereas Mr. Blanchard fulfills those responsibilities on the political side. Together, those two roles provide the public service perspective and the political office perspective.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

[Michael Sabia]

With my role and Mr. Blanchard's, we have the full picture of all government activities, which is necessary in order to identify potential conflicts of interest.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I have another question. If you don't have enough time to answer, you can finish later when you're answering my fellow members' questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

You have 20 seconds.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Okay.

Mr. Sabia, can you explain how the Privy Council and the Prime Minister's office work together to ensure compliance with the conflict of interest screen?

[Michael Sabia]

There are two parts to my answer.

First, we each have our own set of responsibilities, so it's not a matter of negotiating between—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Mr. Sabia, sorry to cut you off, but you'll have to come back to it later. I'm trying to make sure each member's time is respected.

[Michael Sabia]

No, it's all good. There's no problem.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Ms. Lapointe.

Mr. Thériault, you may go ahead for six minutes.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Mr. Sabia.

You completed your conflict of interest declaration on November 3, and according to the report, you sold your shares in Brookfield. Why?

[Michael Sabia]

The first time I realized I was an investor in Brookfield was in the course of the process carried out by the Ethics Commissioner and his office. All of my investments have been in a blind trust for years, since I worked at the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec.

The Commissioner and his office informed me of the Brookfield investment on September 24, along with a number of other investments in my report. Obviously, I saw that I had shares in Brookfield, so my answer was simple. I decided to sell them immediately. In light of my role as administrator and the Prime Minister's positions, it was simpler and more practical not to be an investor in Brookfield. My job is to always endeavour to protect the Prime Minister and the office of Prime Minister from the appearance of a conflict of interest.

That is why I decided to sell my shares—to make things easier and to ensure a sounder administration of the conflict of interest screen.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

It speaks well of you.

If I understand correctly, you were aware of a possible, or at least apparent, conflict of interest. Is that right?

[Michael Sabia]

It was not a conflict of interest, but the appearance of one.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

It was easier, then, to avoid the whole thing.

When did you sell?