Evidence of meeting #18 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was carney.
A video is available from Parliament.
Chief Operating Officer, Brookfield Corporation
I contacted him a couple of weeks before that, maybe more, and the date of the meeting was Friday, October 3 or 4.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON
Did you meet in person or virtually?
Chief Operating Officer, Brookfield Corporation
I met in person with him. I took the afternoon off and I came to Ottawa on my own dime.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON
Okay. Did you meet with him here or in the Prime Minister's Office on Wellington?
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON
Is that in this building here or—because he has a couple—the one down the street from us?
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON
Okay. Thank you very much.
It doesn't hurt to have a Prime Minister financially tied to Brookfield's passive performance. Is that correct?
Chief Operating Officer, Brookfield Corporation
Again, I'm not here to opine on what is appropriate or not as it relates to considerations on how political figures, public office holders, govern themselves.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON
Mr. Carney holds Brookfield-linked assets in a so-called blind trust, and I'll say, as you confirmed earlier, that we know some of those are there because they're “less liquid”. I think that was the term you used. Is that right? Was it less liquid?
Chief Operating Officer, Brookfield Corporation
I would describe those as less liquid, yes.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON
We know they're still there.
Many of the portfolio companies that Brookfield has lobby the government. Now, Mr. Carney's compensation, based on those assets held in trust, rises when those companies do well. When they lobby for an outcome that they're seeking, a favourable outcome for their business, and his government grants it, his personal financial position improves.
Chief Operating Officer, Brookfield Corporation
I think you should say “it”, though, because there's only one. There's only one company in that list that's in Canada.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON
Okay, and that company is...?
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON
If the Prime Minister sold all of his Brookfield-linked assets instead of keeping them in trust, there would be no conflict to manage. Is that correct?
Chief Operating Officer, Brookfield Corporation
I think that's probably a correct statement, yes.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON
What we have isn't a Brookfield problem. The reason you're here is that the Prime Minister has a financial interest in the performance of this company.
What we've said—what I've said—is that to restore Canadians' flagging confidence in democratic institutions and in their elected officials, there ought to be a regime in place whereby party leaders who are represented in the House of Commons divest by way of sale of their controlled assets. Then we avoid the perception and we avoid the risk, and then there isn't a need to manage conflicts.
That's why we're here. We're looking for information, because it's very opaque, and Canadians don't understand. It should be possible to hold two views at the same time: You want an investment in nuclear technology, but you also want to be certain that the decision was made because it's best for the country and it's not going to personally benefit any elected official.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you. We'll leave it right there.
Mr. Sari, you have the floor for five minutes.
Liberal
Abdelhaq Sari Liberal Bourassa, QC
Thank you very much.
First of all, I just want to correct something for the folks listening to us. Individuals came to testify here and clearly explained to us that Mr. Carney withdraws from all conversations related to investments that may be of interest to Brookfield. We still had those conversations. They were very reassuring for us.
I would nonetheless like to know something about Brookfield. We will put measures in place on our side, but on your side, what are you putting in place now that someone with close ties to Brookfield holds the office of Prime Minister?
At Brookfield, what are you doing to avoid all conflicts of interest?
Chief Operating Officer, Brookfield Corporation
At Brookfield—and I've said this before—we're responsible for ensuring that any interactions with public office holders, whether it's the Prime Minister or any other public office holder, are appropriately administered, appropriately vetted, recorded in our logs and tracked by us. We do the same for any....
That's why I can come to this committee and confirm that we've had no interactions with the Prime Minister in relation to Brookfield or any of our businesses. That's what we do. We track any interaction with public officials, and when we are required to, we register.
Liberal
Abdelhaq Sari Liberal Bourassa, QC
Are those registered interactions public?
Are they recorded only to meet your internal management needs?
Chief Operating Officer, Brookfield Corporation
Registration becomes public, yes.
Liberal
Abdelhaq Sari Liberal Bourassa, QC
Can the committee members access this type of registration or register?
Chief Operating Officer, Brookfield Corporation
Yes, there's a registry of anyone who has registered under that legislation. That's publicly available.