Information & Ethics Committee on Nov. 24th, 2025

[Abdelhaq Sari, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

I will summarize the situation for folks listening to us. We now know the Prime Minister recuses himself every time a decision is required. Mr. Sabia and Mr. Blanchard told us that as well. Furthermore, a certain screen was already in place.

As for Brookfield, there’s a great deal of transparency about the fact that there are no longer any interactions with the Prime Minister or his office. I think that’s very important.

In any event, I will repeat that you nonetheless have a certain amount of experience in governance, Mr. Beber.

I do not want to have a debate about a company and a prime minister. I want to come back to the fact that we want to set up a model and processes that can apply to the future, because contexts will change. I don’t want to apply something solely to the situation of Brookfield and Mr. Carney. I really want some advice from you.

What should we do? Is it possible to set up other measures?

In that respect, what recommendations could you make to the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics?

[Justin Beber]

I appreciate the question.

As I've said before, it's not for us, as a private enterprise, to opine on what is appropriate among government officials in dealing with these conflicts. What I've said is that we, as a private enterprise, respect the rules that apply to private enterprise. I believe that it should be for government to determine what is appropriate for administering these matters at government.

I understand that what has been implemented has been in place for quite some time. It was suggested to me that this was actually implemented two decades ago in similar circumstances. To your point, yes, these instances, in a variety of cases, can arise.

[Abdelhaq Sari, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to conclude my turn with an observation, rather than a question.

Mr. Beber, I’m very familiar with your experience and background, and I’m grateful for your testimony.

That said, I think we really should have listened to you more. You are right; as the representative of a private company, you have nothing to add. We really should have worked on aspects other than one-off situations or baseless accusations for which we have no proof.

Thank you very much, Mr. Beber.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Sari.

Mr. Cooper, you have five minutes.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Beber, you stated earlier that there are 2,000 Brookfield owned and operated companies. I would note that only 103 of these companies have been publicly disclosed by Mr. Carney and are subject to his ethics screen. In other words, 95% of Brookfield companies are not the subject of the ethics screen.

Will you undertake to provide a list of the 1,900 other Brookfield companies?

[Justin Beber]

I presume that in conversations and discussions with the Ethics Commissioner that list was produced based on—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB]

I'm asking you. Will you undertake to provide us with a copy of that list?

When a Brookfield company makes money, Brookfield makes money. You said that. Consistent with that, the success of any of these companies contributes to the value of Mr. Carney's stock options. I would submit that it is of material interest. Canadians do deserve the right to know what these other 1,900 companies are, 95% of which are not subject to the ethics screen.

Again, will you undertake to provide that list?

[Justin Beber]

A great many of those would have no ties to Canada.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB]

The answer is no. Is that your answer?

[Justin Beber]

I will take it away.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB]

You'll take that under advisement.

[Justin Beber]

Sure. I will.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB]

Okay. You stated, in answer to my previous round, that the 20 companies that are part of the holdings of the Brookfield transition fund I are listed in annexure A. The problem with that is that they aren't identified as being part of the holdings of that fund, so we don't know what those companies are by looking at annex A.

I would submit that is a problem from the standpoint of transparency because these companies are disproportionately the most lucrative part of Mr. Carney's future bonus pay.

Will you undertake to provide a list that specifically sets out the holdings in that fund so that we can see exactly what they are, because there is no transparency?

[Justin Beber]

There would be perfect transparency to the Ethics Commissioner. I think that question should be addressed to the Ethics Commissioner.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB]

I think there's an interest for Canadians to know—

[Justin Beber]

I understand.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB]

—a level of public transparency. You can provide us with a list. You already know what the 20 companies are.

[Justin Beber]

I think that should first be addressed to the Ethics Commissioner.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB]

I'm asking you, so your answer is no.

[Justin Beber]

My answer is that you should be speaking to the Ethics Commissioner about it because there is perfect transparency within.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB]

I will take that as a no, that you're not prepared to undertake that.

I also asked you the question, what are the LPs? You said unequivocally that Brookfield doesn't release the names of LPs. I would submit that is a real problem here.

I'll tell you why. Mr. Carney set up the fund. This is a $15-billion fund. We're talking about deep pockets here, formed with investments based on the deep relationships that Mr. Carney has. I think Canadians deserve to know who is invested in Mr. Carney's future bonus pay.

I note that a Fitch ratings report shows that 21% of those funds are—the pool of the funds—banks and 23% are from sovereign wealth funds. Is Mr. Carney beholden to the Qatar Investment Authority? Is he beholden to the Saudis? Is he beholden to the Bank of China? We know he got a $276-million loan from the Bank of China when he was the chair of Brookfield in November 2024.

I would submit that it is material, and I would therefore, on that basis, ask that you to provide the names of those LPs.

[Justin Beber]

I've already answered that question.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB]

The answer is no.

[Justin Beber]

That's not the answer that I gave.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB]

Then provide an answer.