Evidence of meeting #18 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was carney.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
Let me ask you about another topic that my colleagues opposite have raised around conflicts of interest. Presumably you have to deal with conflicts of interest in a corporate context.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
What are some of the tools that you use to manage conflicts inside Brookfield?
Chief Operating Officer, Brookfield Corporation
I appreciate that question.
Conflicts do arise from time to time, and our view is that there are certain principles that must be applied when they do arise. The first is transparency. We have systems in place to ensure that when conflicts arise, they're identified. Once a conflict is identified, there are really only two ways to resolve a conflict. One is to avoid it altogether, to terminate it in some fashion. The other is to have it consented to or approved by an unconflicted decision-maker. We have significant processes and procedures in place to ensure that once they're identified, they are resolved through one of those two means.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
Do you use blind trusts, or are you familiar with the blind trust in the sense that we would use it here in the federal context?
Chief Operating Officer, Brookfield Corporation
After having been invited here, I am loosely familiar with those.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
You would appreciate that, in the federal context, a public office holder who comes under the act, when they establish a blind trust, is considered to have divested their controlled assets.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
They're not allowed to give direction to a trustee on that front, so there can be no knowledge if the assets are held, if they're sold or if they're converted.
My colleague Mr. Barrett suggested earlier that if shares are held, the holder benefits, but there's a big assumption built into that: Once the assets are in the trust, the public office holder has no knowledge what those assets are. Would you agree with that?
Conservative
Chief Operating Officer, Brookfield Corporation
I would.... I apologize. I'm not sure.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Maybe we can come back to it, then. We're 25 seconds over.
Mr. Thériault, the floor is yours for five minutes.
Bloc
Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Beber, tax avoidance is a practice that happens.
Chief Operating Officer, Brookfield Corporation
I'm sorry. Could you repeat the question?
Chief Operating Officer, Brookfield Corporation
I can only speak to Brookfield. There is no tax avoidance at Brookfield.
Bloc
Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC
I imagine you are familiar with the OECD.
At the G20, the OECD decided to adopt a policy to combat tax avoidance globally. Companies must therefore pay a minimum tax of 15%. This is precisely to protect ourselves against tax avoidance. When they use tax avoidance, they do not pay their fair share in the country where they operate. The reason this policy was adopted must be that tax avoidance happens.
If you are part of the business world and you want to be transparent, you can't say that you are speaking solely on behalf of Brookfield. The OECD, an organization you are familiar with, has decided to adopt a global minimum tax.
It was no accident that the OECD did this, but you are saying that it does not concern Brookfield.
What comments do you have on that?
Chief Operating Officer, Brookfield Corporation
Mr. Thériault, I am not an expert in tax policy. I'm aware of the global minimum tax—
Bloc
Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC
Excuse me for interrupting you, Mr. Beber.
I am somewhat surprised, since Brookfield insisted that you be here today. According to Brookfield, you are an expert, and you are able to answer all our questions. You don't have to be an expert to understand what the OECD is doing and to understand the global problem it is trying to solve.
I have a lot of reservations about the way you are testifying today. You are using very technical terms and you are avoiding questions. Tax gets avoided and then we get questions being avoided. This makes me very sad, because I expected something else from you.
I am going to move on to another subject now.
You tell us that beyond a shadow of a doubt, your name change in the United States has nothing to do with the OECD measure. You say it did not benefit you and you are paying the 15% minimum tax.
If I understand correctly, what you are telling us is that Brookfield is paying the 15% minimum tax.
Chief Operating Officer, Brookfield Corporation
We are paying all applicable taxes in every jurisdiction, including any jurisdictions where we're required to implement a global minimum tax.
Mr. Thériault, I will say as well that the reason the change had no impact on Brookfield was that Brookfield Asset Management Limited, both before and after the designation, remained a British Columbia company and, therefore, a taxpayer in Canada—
Bloc
Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC
Excuse me for interrupting you, but I have limited speaking time.
I will repeat my question, because you are not answering it.
Does Brookfield pay its global minimum tax, which is 15%?
You say that Brookfield pays all its taxes. I am asking you: Does it pay the minimum tax, which is 15%?
Chief Operating Officer, Brookfield Corporation
Yes, in every jurisdiction where it applies.