Finance Committee on Dec. 7th, 2006

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Give me an example.

[Michel Dorais]

I'll have to ask my colleagues. I do not have those examples here, but we can give some breakdown on our costs. We cost everything, but there are things that are not easy to pull out.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

I'd be surprised if you said anything other than that you cost everything, because this budget is just full of credits, and presumably you have to work up a cost of some kind so that the government could know that in the process of giving all of these credits it is going to cost them money. So what is it going to cost?

[Michel Dorais]

Mr. Chair, with your permission, our chief financial officer just joined us and he might have something to say on that.

Mr. Ralston.

[James Ralston, Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency]

Thank you.

On the subject of costing, there are a couple of different ways to tackle it, depending on the circumstances.

On an ongoing basis, we try to track the cost, on a unit basis, of servicing the accounts: the T1 accounts, or the individual accounts; the T2, or corporation accounts; things like the GST accounts. So we don't do it on the basis of individual measures, but we can give some sense of what the aggregate cost of a revenue stream is.

The other thing, though, that I think is maybe more pertinent to your question is when there is a new measure that comes in, we will go through an exercise of trying to determine what would be the incremental cost of that measure. We do that largely for budgeting purposes so that we can advise the Department of Finance on how we might need to have our budget adjusted. Those would then appear in Treasury Board submissions, and ultimately in supplementary estimates.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

In theory, your incremental costs for this should be known for this global bunch of credits, if you will. This is comparable to your moving the base rate, the base personal exemption, up $100 or $500, or whatever.

So can you point me to that? Can you show me that?

[James Ralston]

As I say, what we can do is through supplementary estimates (A) or (B), where you can see the amount of the increment related to a particular budget measure at the time it is first implemented. But after that point in time, the increment becomes aggregated within the revenue stream that it forms a part of.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Mr. Dykstra.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you.

I appreciate it very much.

One of the questions—which I guess is related to a change in service that happened under the previous administration and which is still going through its implementation stages—deals with when a client of CRA comes into an office and has a decision to make with respect to wanting to speak to someone or to use a telephone.

Generally speaking, a lot of the concerns that I have received in my riding office revolve around the fact that the phone is positioned in such a way that the client can actually see the folks working inside who used to be able to help them at the counter and who now, unfortunately, aren't able to do that. Especially for a riding like mine, where I have a number of senior citizens who need to use the facilities on a regular basis and have found it very difficult, I wonder if you could comment on how that implementation is going, and also if there is a review that is going to take place that could potentially help some of these folks.

[Carol Skelton, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

We're setting up a system where people can make appointments to go in and sit down with someone to help them with their problem. I think you will find that once our clients get used to it, they will quite enjoy it, because instead of having to sit and wait until their turn comes, they will be served efficiently and be looked after very well, and they'll be very happy with that service. People are trained to help them and will do that. I think we're finding with a lot of the people who come in that if they have a specific complaint, they will go to a person trained in that speciality or in whatever type of tax problem they're having.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Just to follow up a bit on that, will there be a potential review of the service to ensure that it is actually providing a better source of in-and-out for folks, or whether it may not be?

[Carol Skelton, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

It's being monitored and measured. We'll see what it looks like in the spring. It will be looked at again, but we're looking at it right now.

I go back to the time when I used to work for Canadian Blood Services, which brought in an appointment system. When I was working with them, I said it would never work, but it's working like a darn now. People really enjoy it and are being treated fairly, efficiently, and quickly, and they are quite appreciating the whole thing.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you.

Another question I had revolved around—and you spoke a little bit about it in your opening remarks—the whole or single process for administration of, at least, the Ontario corporate tax collection. I wonder if you could comment a little further on that and on how the new process is actually going to help businesses in provinces like Ontario, and on what impacts it will obviously have on the CRA.

[Carol Skelton, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

I'll let Michel deal with that, as he started talking about it earlier.

[Michel Dorais]

The impact on business is phenomenal. In fact, there is virtually unanimous support in Ontario business for this project to proceed. Both governments have agreed; they've signed the agreement and have announced it. The teams are in place, of about 60 people each, and are now working on the various aspects of it. We're no longer in negotiations with Ontario; we're into joint implementation. As I said, the timetable is very ambitious. During 2007 we will share the audit function, and by 2009 Ontario businesses will have a single return, a single taxable income, and a single auditor at the time of an audit.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Speaking of auditors, very quickly, Chair, earlier in the year, when the CRA was in and Michael was in to present, we talked about a number of the auditor's reports that had come down and some corrections that were being made.

As a new minister, have you had the opportunity to review some of those recommendations from the auditor and a chance to begin the implementation of those changes?

[Carol Skelton, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Yes, the Auditor General is our auditor, and I respect her words. I'm very serious about implementing those and have instructed the officials to make sure it's done and done properly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you, Mr. Dykstra.

Thank you, Madam Minister. We appreciate the straightforwardness of your answers. You've put a much friendlier face on the Canada Revenue Agency than the previous minister did, so we thank you especially for that.

We'll now invite Ms. Roveto to come forward, and we'll continue with a presentation from her.

Thank you, again, on behalf of the committee.

Ms. Roveto, I hope I'm not rushing you, but I want to make sure there's lots of time for exchange with committee members. I welcome you and your colleagues and invite you to proceed as you wish with your introductory remarks, please.

[Connie Roveto, Chair, Board of Management, Canada Revenue Agency]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I believe my introductory remarks have been tabled and distributed to the members of the committee.

I'd like to begin by introducing my colleagues. You know Mr. Dorais, who was present for the minister's presentation. Also accompanying me is Deborah MacDonald-McGee, who is the corporate secretary and a major source of the board's functioning; and Mary Anne McMahon, who is legal counsel to the board.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

So you're the only non-Scot in the group.

[Connie Roveto]

I have to say, I've never seen a place with so many MacDonalds and McMahons as the Canada Revenue Agency.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

And you know what they say about the Scots, of course.

[Connie Roveto]

They're very good with money.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Yes. What is the joke? I might as well finish this off. The Irish pray on their knees and the Scots on their neighbours.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!