Finance Committee on May 29th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

I'm not sure how that procedure would work, Mr. St-Cyr. But if it were the wish of the committee not to invite certain witnesses, I suppose it could be discussed.

Mr. Pacetti, would you like to give some clarification to committee members on the normal process you followed as chair? Would that be all right?

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Yes, what we tried to do is.... The committee does try to represent the voice of the people, so it's hard to say that witnesses who want to appear are not allowed to appear. In the past, if members requested that certain witnesses appear, we'd just allow them to appear, and we sat extra time. I think that's the normal procedure.

In this case, you may just want to advise the witnesses, if they choose to reappear, that we did accept vote number 10. You may sometimes, in speaking to the witnesses, have to discourage them from appearing. I guess that would be the observation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

I appreciate your comments, Mr. Pacetti. I will make the comment, though, that some of the committee members had earlier represented a desire to see certain people come forward, and I want to make sure that all committee members feel welcome to make those suggestions.

Mr. Loubier, I'm sorry, you've had your hand up, sir.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Chairman, contrary to what my colleague, Mr. Pacetti, said, I think that if we hear from the same witnesses on the same subjects, we will be wasting our time. In my opinion, if we remove the names of these five or six individuals, we could hear from other witnesses on other aspects of Bill C-13. In this way, we would not have to stay here to listen to the same arguments and analyses twice.

I would therefore ask for the committee's authorization to remove the names of the five or six witnesses who appeared before us today and who are scheduled to appear again on Wednesday on exactly the same subject. If other colleagues wish to put forward the name of other witnesses, they could take the place of those whose arguments we already heard today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you, Mr. Loubier.

I would make the observation, however, that this is a different process, on Bill C-13, although we all understand there is an overlap in terms of some of the topics—the one in discussion today, as an example. Nonetheless, I don't believe it would be without precedent, but it would be a restrictive motion for us as a committee if we were to wish to exclude people from appearing on Bill C-13, which is the budget implementation bill.

Yes, Mr. Loubier.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

We are not talking about introducing an unusual procedure, Mr. Chairman. We are talking about showing some intelligence and managing our time effectively. In the near future, there will be a great deal of legislation before us and we will not know which way to turn, because this committee has a great deal of work. Believe me, I have 13 years of experience on this committee, and I think we must manage our work effectively. If some witnesses who have appeared today have to come back to talk about exactly the same aspects of the bill, with the same analyses, I think we should rather allow others to come forward who might have a different view about other aspects of Bill C-13.

So this is not about establishing something unusual or displeasing people or in any way diminishing this democratic exercise. All we are trying to do is to manage our time properly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Madam Ablonczy.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I just wanted to remind the committee, Mr. Chair, that the minister will be here tomorrow, and also the officials. So with respect to some of the issues we heard today, I'm sure there'll be questions of the minister and the officials on these matters as well, which may provide the committee with additional clarification.

I don't know whether there would still be a desire to deal with the same issues on Wednesday, as Mr. Loubier said. I don't have strong feelings; I'm happy to hear from anybody. But we have to make sure we cover the waterfront, so to speak.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you, Madam.

Mr. Pacetti.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Perhaps in compromise, these are witnesses that members submitted.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

That's correct.

What you have in front of you, for clarification, is actually a proposed panel only and represents all the suggestions we received from committee members.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Perhaps speak to the member who submitted the names of those people who appeared today and see if it's still useful to have those members appear. I'm still very uncomfortable not asking people to come before the committee who should be before the committee. Everybody has things to do; it's not just the parliamentarians. These people are also businessmen and people who have things to do. I would imagine they wouldn't be coming or requesting to come before committee if they had no reason to come before the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you, Mr. Pacetti.

Mr. Turner.

[Garth Turner, Conservative, Halton, ON]

I think we've dealt effectively with vote 10 and perhaps we can come back and look at this in a review process sometime.

I certainly think there's no point wasting the time of some witnesses who have been here today. I would suggest that Mr. Murphy, Mr. Vukanovich, and Mr. Charles, from my point of view, be excused from coming back. I think we gave them a good going over today.

They are busy people, I agree, Mr. Pacetti, and I think that unless they had something pressing they wanted to say that they haven't said here today, they should probably be excused.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

It's not a question of excusing; they haven't been contacted yet. Of course, each witness who is called and invited to appear and make a presentation would have that option to decide not to. Unless the committee has anything further to add to this discussion, apart from, and I'll re-emphasize this, any other suggestions you may have on other people that you feel should be making a presentation....

Yes, Mr. Loubier.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I have a suggestion about how to proceed, Mr. Chairman. Tomorrow, before the minister appears, could we come in 15 minutes before the start of the meeting, hold a steering committee meeting, look at the list, and then suggest a new list of witnesses to committee members? I think that at that time we will have a better work atmosphere.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Actually, the problem, of course, is the shortness of time in contacting people to come, to invite. From the perspective of someone who is receiving an invitation to come to speak before the committee, I think any delay might just make that a more difficult process.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Yes, but we manage our list. When you say that these people have not yet even been invited to appear on Bill C-13, that means that it is up to us to manage this list. If we think that what we heard today is exactly what we would hear for certain parts of Bill C-13, it is not necessary to call people back again to waste their time and ours as well. I think it is up to us to manage this list.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Madam Wasylycia-Leis.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Since this is a list of suggestions, there's nothing wrong at this point with having this kind of discussion and making a decision not to repeat what we just went through today. There's no point in that.

My major concern is that since this is a list of proposals, there are a number of suggestions I made that did not appear on the list. Mr. Chair, there are a number of names I suggested that are not on the list and I'm curious to know why they aren't on the list.

I would like, in fact, to remind you that I suggested we invite the Canadian Labour Congress. I only made four suggestions, assuming these were fairly broad-based consultations. I also suggested a couple of finance ministers. That was all part of a list. We sent the memo. We can certainly give you the documentation.

Finally, I would also suggest that since Michael Shapcott couldn't attend today that he be transferred over to this list and added to our budget consultations.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you. I appreciate that, but I'll ask that any other suggestions come to the clerk's office directly following this meeting so we don't use the committee's time in that way.

I'm told--and Mr. Turner, could you verify this?--that the folks who are in the duplicative position are people you had asked to be put on the list. I take from your comments that you wouldn't be uncomfortable with those particular individuals who would be testifying a second time not being put on it.

[Garth Turner, Conservative, Halton, ON]

I have no problem with them not being asked; however, the two main proponents are in the room still and I don't know if they want to say more or if they want to come back and make any points. I have nothing further to ask at this point.

Since they're here, Mr. Chairman, why don't you ask them?

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Mr. Turner, why don't you ask them?

Mr. Charles, are you satisfied with today?

[Andy Charles]

I think we've had a very good review of the issues. If there's a need to come back, I'll make myself available.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Mr. Vukanovich.