Finance Committee on Dec. 6th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much.

We'll now move on.

We have Mr. Trevor Lewis from the National Association of Indigenous Institutes of Higher Learning.

Thank you for being here. You have five minutes.

[Trevor Lewis, Chair, National Association of Indigenous Institutes of Higher Learning]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the committee for giving me the opportunity to address the issues we have.

I'm the chair for the national association, which is an organization established in early 2000 to support the recognition and resourcing of indigenous-controlled institutes of higher learning in Canada. There are currently just over 50 indigenous institutes across the country, impacting all aspects of lifelong learning, from advanced to undergraduate degrees, all the way down to elementary and secondary programs, and everything in between, including training.

Indigenous institutes continue to play an important role in the post-secondary system in Canada, not only for the students who access the services we provide, but also as significant economic drivers in the communities where they are located.

In a recent review by the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development, they released a report—in February, I think it was—that stated:

We cannot emphasize enough the established importance of these institutions and of Aboriginal programming for post-secondary learners. The successes of Aboriginal-controlled institutions should be acknowledged by government, supported and built upon. In our view, government’s objective should be to put in place measures that strengthen and promote the long-term viability of these key institutions for the future of Aboriginal post-secondary education.

This is just one recommendation in the report. When the Department of Indian Affairs responded, they failed to respond to this particular recommendation, which is, I guess, a bit concerning.

As well, as recently as early November, I attended a western universities round table organized by Lloyd Axworthy, where they were talking about providing access for aboriginal folks in universities. At the end of that round table session, they issued a press release that reinforces the recognition of the important role of first nations institutions and calls upon the federal government “to strengthen its support for Indigenous institutions of higher learning”.

So these are just two significant events in this past year that have continued to reinforce the things that have built aboriginal institutes in the country. Despite that support, we continue to be bounced around in the jurisdictional volleyball game. As I'm sure everyone is aware, post-secondary education is the responsibility of the provinces and Indians are the responsibility of the federal government, so the two never meet. We exist in the middle of somewhere, a no man's land.

I'll give you a real example of this. In 2005 the federal government introduced Bill C-48, which provided up to $1.5 billion to support training programs and enhanced access to post-secondary education to benefit, among others, aboriginal people. None of this funding found its way to the indigenous institutes across the country. The federal government told us the funding was transferred to the provinces, and more or less, they don't like to tell the province what to do with the funding they receive. The provinces stated that funding was only for publicly funded and supported institutions, so there again we're in the middle. We're neither.

I want to keep this as brief as possible. As a recommendation, if the federal government is looking for ways to invest the huge surpluses they have, I might suggest a low-risk investment in aboriginal post-secondary education to lift the 2% cap, in addition to increasing the funding that's available for post-secondary students. It will have very high dividends in the very near future when we see, over the next few years, baby boomers retire and a huge skill shortage that will exist in our country. So I see that as a very low-risk investment for the federal government. Indirectly, I might say, that particular investment also helps aboriginal institutions, because it's one of the ways in which, right now, some of our organizations are available to access small amounts of dollars through the Indian studies support program.

With that, I'd like to thank everyone for listening.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much.

We'll now move on to Nova Scotia Federation of Labour. We have with us Betty Jean Sutherland, vice-president-at-large.

The floor is yours for five minutes.

[Betty Jean Sutherland, Vice-President-at-Large, Nova Scotia Federation of Labour]

Thank you.

The Nova Scotia Federation of Labour is an umbrella labour organization that has a membership made up from affiliated unions from across the province, from every region and from every walk of life. Our executive council is comprised of representation from every union in the province, and we represent approximately 70,000 affiliated members, including over 6,000 members of the Public Service Alliance of Canada.

The Nova Scotia Federation of Labour is a legislative body that represents the interests of affiliates on matters of impact on workers and their families, matters that normally cannot be resolved at the bargaining table. Taxation is one of those issues. We welcome the opportunity to raise concerns and to make recommendations on behalf of our affiliated members. We have some serious concerns about the tax system in this country and the needs for a prosperous future.

In the preamble to the questions the committee is asking, it states that the responsibility of government is to ensure the existence of a system of taxes, fees, and other charges that meets the needs of the country, its residents, and its businesses. This is an important question in the context of the committee's statement that we live in an increasingly global world characterized by ongoing and rapid change.

Globalization is one of the main reasons the federal government must ensure not just that a taxation system exists, but that it must be a fair one. The first question asked is about the criteria that should guide federal decisions about changes to taxes. Fairness is one of those criteria. Upper-income citizens and large corporations have the greatest ability to pay, and they have been the major beneficiaries of the growing economy and the tax cuts.

The Federation of Labour does not believe in tax cuts. Cutting taxes not only reduces the services Canadians depend on, it also reduces the revenue the country relies on to manage the fiscal debt and the expenditure pressures it faces.

In a recent Environics research poll, 76% of Atlantic Canadians supported increasing taxes on wealthier Canadians to pay for programs that benefit the rest of the population, while overall 70% of Canadians interviewed agreed with this statement. Any tax increases should be based on the ability to pay, and the upper-income earners and corporations fall into that category.

These assertions lead to the second question posed by the committee on the appropriate form and level of corporate taxes, fees, and other charges, and the extent to which federal revenue should be derived from corporations rather than from individuals. An appropriate form of taxation for corporations is just that—taxation, not tax breaks or cuts—and it must be based on the ability to pay. The same applies to individuals.

We do not believe the federal government needs to ensure that corporate taxation is competitive with that in other countries. It should look to the economic prosperity of those who have fair taxation and spend the money on social services and infrastructure as an example to emulate. Consideration should be given to the various levels and types of goods provided by the country only if it means we are trying to raise the bar, not lower our standards to save money.

The Federation of Labour does not believe in privatization of any public services. Public delivery of these services is the only way to ensure the quality accountability that Canadians deserve and are willing to pay for. Having said that, an appropriate form of personal taxation is fair tax based on the ability to pay.

Investment income should not be taxed at lower rates than employment income. A new and higher rate for incomes above $250,000 and an increase in the inclusion rate for capital gains for personal and corporate earnings.... We need tax reform, but not in the form of cuts. We need to tax fairly and ensure that moneys are allocated fairly to the provinces and that federal transfers are not just maintained by increases.

Concerns about the federal budget have provoked debate and scrutiny in Nova Scotia about equalization and federal transfers in general. A major concern is whether the federal budget becomes another means by which our provincial government underestimates revenues and makes cuts or eliminates important social and economic programs.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Are you just about done?

[Betty Jean Sutherland]

Yes.

Nova Scotia has been putting off investments in, for example, post-secondary education, supports to low-income households, more sustainable energy production and consumption, and transportation and infrastructure. There are ways to invest revenue in tangible programs that support Canada's working families while keeping the nation in a balanced budget situation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much. We appreciate that.

We'll now move on to our last presenter. From the Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants, we have Roberto Jovel.

The floor is yours for five minutes.

[Roberto Jovel, Coordinator, Policy and Research, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants]

Thank you very much.

The acronym OCASI stands for the Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants. We don't have a French name for the moment, but that's a matter of time.

We are an organization of provincial federations with approximately 190 members. These are community organizations serving immigrants and refugees in Ontario. They are highly diverse organizations, which work with immigrant women, certain communities of specific national origins and faith-based organizations. In fact, it's quite a diversified network.

We are not tax experts, but we have seen that the tax reform measures from previous years have had an impact on the populations that we serve and represent. In general, given the poverty afflicting many immigrants and refugees, a good number of the measures and changes made to the tax system in previous years have provided no benefits for these persons.

So in today's presentation, I would like, somewhat as in the text we submitted in advance, to establish the connection between this tax system reform and the need for a Canada-wide anti-poverty strategy. I would also like to establish the connection between the issue of poverty in Canada and discrimination based on race and gender or, as it is called more officially, gender differences.

I draw your attention to page 3 of our brief, where we talk about modern labour market realities in Canada. The fact is that a growing percentage of the present labour market fall into employment categories such as under-employment and unstable employment. This quest for flexibility in labour markets was a strategy used by employers to shirk their responsibilities in labour hiring cost areas. There are studies that outline this situation and establish the fact that immigrants are harder hit by the bad effects of this situation.

I also draw your attention to the study by the Workers' Action Centre of Toronto, to which we refer in footnote 5. What are the effects of these under-employment and unstable employment practices, under which workers have no rights? This is a lack of any right to form a union: no right to conduct collective bargaining, no access to employment insurance, no paid vacation, no coverage for parental leave, no recourse against employers' abuse of power, including against unfair dismissal.

In terms of the link between poverty and race and gender issues in Canada, and the need for this committee to look at that very closely, like any other policy-makers or legislators in Canada, the production and reproduction of poverty are not neutral processes that equally affect the members of different groups of residents in Canada. In this country today, race informs who is most probably going to get cut in the shifting sands of poverty, and gender informs that as well.

The migrant experience, the immigrant experience, is an experience very often profoundly marked by disempowerment and abuses, and it is informed by the combination of issues of race and gender, and this combination yields the disproportionately racialized and effeminized face of Canada's poor today.

I would like to quickly refer to the very well-known studies by Michael Ornstein and Grace-Edward Galabuzi on these matters, and as well, our most recent project, which is called the Colour of Poverty Campaign, of which OCASI is a part with several other community groups, which has produced a series of fact sheets detailing with statistics the situation of poverty and race in Canada. These are accessible on the Internet at colourofpoverty.ca and they are, again, very useful for policy-makers, policy analysts, and legislators.

Over the last 15 years--and the census results that were published just yesterday continue to confirm this--immigrants to Canada have been arriving increasingly from countries in the global south, and thus they are increasingly members of racialized communities and face related forms of injustice.

Earlier this year, Statistics Canada released a study depicting the chronic low income and low-income dynamics among recent immigrants. There's also a study by Evangelia Tastsoglou and Valerie Preston that looks specifically at the situation of immigrant women. The results are that immigrant women are less likely to participate in the paid labour force than Canadian-born women. Immigrant women are more likely than Canadian-born women, and both immigrant men and Canadian-born men, to be unemployed. Among full-time workers, immigrant women have the lowest income, and racialized immigrant women make 20% less money than non-racialized immigrant women, that is, white immigrant women. This does not account for refugee women, who were not part of this study.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you.

We'll now move to questions and answers. I believe we can get seven minutes for each one on this round, and that'll take us to our time.

We'll start with Mr. Pacetti.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you to all the witnesses. It's very important that you appear before us, and as I said to the last panel, when you have diverging views, I think it makes it more interesting for us.

Mr. Jovel, I didn't have any questions to ask you before hearing your testimony, but I find the issues you raise interesting.

I'm a member who represents quite an urban riding where the rate of immigration is very high. Some organizations definitely offer services, but I don't know what services can be offered to help someone. I'll cite one of your examples. You said that an immigrant woman receives 20% less.

Is it the government's responsibility to help or to act, or is it up to the organization to do that? Even the organizations don't have the tools. Has your organization taken any action to find a solution or to reduce this difference?

[Roberto Jovel]

Organizations like OCASI generally offer direct services to immigrants. We provide information services on employment, housing and health. However, they are not generally able to work to defend the rights of individual immigrants. On the other hand, as a provincial umbrella organization, we raise these issues with the various levels of government.

There are also different responsibilities. Many responsibilities for employment are under provincial jurisdiction, whereas others are under federal jurisdiction, such as employment insurance legislation.

So when we talk about women living in situations of unemployment or unstable employment and who do not have access to employment insurance, there are measures that the federal government could implement in an attempt to improve the situation.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

The question is whether that will help them even if available funding is increased for the community centres offering such services. Only 1% of the population is served by these centres. In particular, only part of the immigrant population isn't aware of government services, even of the services you offer. That's the biggest problem for us. There's always a small percentage of people who use the services, but a lot who do not use them. That's the problem we have.

[Roberto Jovel]

We didn't address the issue of funding for community organizations in our brief. We focused instead on the anti-poverty strategy and tax reform, which can help remedy the situation. So the question is not necessarily to inform individuals, if they find themselves in a—

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I don't want to interrupt you, but if an immigrant comes to Canada and is not informed, will it change something if he or she goes to you?

[Roberto Jovel]

Of course, we can inform them about their rights.

Now we're thinking of establishing measures to obtain fair treatment for immigrant workers. The federal and provincial governments have undertaken to recognize credentials acquired outside Canada. That's a very good measure. However, if there isn't any federal or provincial legislation against discrimination in the areas of hiring, salaries, career advancement opportunities, we are—

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I understand. All right. Thank you.

Ms. Kirk, just quickly, there was something you mentioned concerning which I'm not sure I caught on. Did you say we should be treating charities like venture corporations?

[Teri Kirk]

Well, I'm not really suggesting that. I'm saying that many charities have financial needs to address a very significant need in the community—say, a large economic disaster—for which they want to raise large amounts of capital. By being restricted to donations, to amounts people are willing to give out of their back pocket, they are limited in their access to capital. One of the biggest gaps identified by American universities is the need for capital to address these needs and the lack of it.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

That is, the lack when you have a big project on the go, and things like that.

[Teri Kirk]

Yes. What we're really suggesting is that while there are many measures now in place to support donations and giving, we think our society is now sophisticated enough to support more varied investment instruments in charities—debt instruments, equity instruments....

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you didn't address the volunteer sector. Are there any steps underway to acknowledge the volunteer sector by putting in a dollar amount when somebody volunteers for a specific charity or charity event or charity purpose?

[Teri Kirk]

We work very much on behalf of the charitable and volunteer sector. We focus on the objectives of investors, donors, and recipient organizations—

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I'm talking specifically about a volunteer, somebody who comes in and volunteers for a charity for whatever it may be—10 hours or 20 hours a week, or a month. Is there any way you can attach a dollar amount to that and say, this is worth that amount? Is there any work being done for that?

[Teri Kirk]

We do. Exactly right. There is a lot being done, both within Imagine Canada and in Volunteer Canada. We feel that the volunteer hours—and I have the numbers and will follow up with you more specifically—are a close-to-1%-of-GDP contribution.

Are you asking specifically whether we support tax measures?

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

No, it was whether you have a specific recommendation or idea of how we can value that, because there have been some recommendations that I've heard.

[Teri Kirk]

Yes, we do. We can show you as a percentage of GDP that it adds up—