Evidence of meeting #37 for Finance in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Twenty-five million dollars, that is a lot of money, but you do not want to share this money with three departments and a separate entity.
Co-chair, Canadian Arts Coalition
I am fully aware of the fact that we are presenting you with a real puzzle.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
I asked the same question last year. So perhaps you could take a look at this issue with your members and provide us with a response later on.
Co-chair, Canadian Arts Coalition
We could get back to you with some proposals.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
You can have them sent to the clerk.
Mr. Turk, just quickly--and this is a question the government members should probably be asking, but I have to ask it--we keep going back to the famous 1994 numbers, and some people are using 2000 and 2001 numbers, but if we look at the amount of money that's been transferred in post-secondary, we always included the money transferred to granting councils, so is it not equitable or pretty similar? Or are we totally excluding transfer moneys that are given to granting councils?
Executive Director, Canadian Association of University Teachers
We were looking, in the figures we quoted, at the transfers to the provinces for funding post-secondary education.
I don't know if my colleague, David Robinson, wants to elaborate on that.
David Robinson Associate Executive Director, Canadian Association of University Teachers
Sure. In the brief we're referring to the federal transfers that help fund the core operating costs of the universities. The research envelope is separate. The difficulty is--
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
That was something that didn't exist in the 1990s, I believe, or I think it was--
Associate Executive Director, Canadian Association of University Teachers
No, it did exist in the 1990s as well. There's been a significant increase in research funding, but the problem has been that the core operating costs of universities have borne the price of that, and they haven't seen an increase. They've seen a real reduction, which has led to rising tuition fees and the problems with student debt that we've seen.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Would you be supportive of making or forcing or telling the government to separate the transfer payments between post-secondary and the transfer?
Associate Executive Director, Canadian Association of University Teachers
Certainly we've recommended, and I think the government's taken the first step towards, disentangling the health transfer from the social transfers, but we would certainly be in favour of having a separate post-secondary transfer, just mainly for accountability and transparency reasons. I think one of the challenges you have, as members of Parliament, is that you have to make a decision--
Associate Executive Director, Canadian Association of University Teachers
--as to whether we are spending enough money on post-secondary education. If you don't know what that level is, it's very difficult to make that decision.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Mr. Savoie, you agree on a need for greater transparency so that post-secondary funds be separate from social transfers, right?
President, Fédération étudiante universitaire du Québec
On the issue of very specific transfers under social programs, we do not hold any particular position. However, we believe funds should clearly be managed in the provinces first and foremost, and the transfers must have no strings attached.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
But if we don't know where the money is going, it is very difficult to know what the conditions are. We do not know how much is being transferred for post-secondary education, health or other social purposes.
President, Fédération étudiante universitaire du Québec
To us the main problem is funding in the provinces to fund basic operations. Then there is the issue of how this funding would be split at the federal level.
For us, in Quebec, it is important to have the most timely funding possible so we may make appropriate choices. Expertise in the area of university education can be found, in the main, within provincial departments.
Liberal
Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON
On the arts, the stat about $2.70 in revenue for every one dollar the government invested is kind of interesting. The other dimension I thought was really important was that the cultural sector contributes $46 billion to Canada's GDP and generates approximately $25 billion in taxes to all levels of government. That's more than a 50% return. How does it compare to other countries?
Co-chair, Canadian Arts Coalition
I don't have those numbers in front of me. What I can tell you is that those numbers you've just cited seem to reinforce the idea that the arts and culture are a sound investment. How it fares and how it compares to other nations is certainly something we can provide.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Thank you.
Ms. Block, you have about two minutes for a final round.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK
Thank you. My question is for CNCS. You mentioned increased funding you have received from the federal government since 2005, including 900 additional Canada graduate scholarships.
I want to speak to recommendation number one: “The CNCS recommends that the federal government increase the budgets of funding agencies to reflect the needs they express.”
Can you speak to the criterion used by organizations in evaluating the applications recommended for funding, and how do they come up with those needs?
President, Conseil national des cycles supérieurs (Québec)
I cannot speak on behalf of granting councils. That said, in terms of strategic directions, these organizations assess their needs based on the demand in their respective fields and they are there to support the needs expressed in their respective research fields.
We know, for instance, that in 2008-2009 NSERC needed approximately $1.2 billion. There was a $200 million shortfall.
CIHR, in the same year, expressed a need in the order of $75 million, and the calculations are slightly different for the SSHRC. What has been determined is the importance of stable federal funding for research to ensure social sciences are not cast by the wayside, which has too often been the case, and has again been the case over the last few years. SSHRC is asking for federal research funding to be maintained at at least 25%.
I do not have the figures before me to know what that would represent but I could provide you with them.