Evidence of meeting #37 for Finance in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
10:10 a.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
My question is for Mr. Viau of the Conseil national des cycles supérieurs. You raised the issue of taxing post-doctoral bursaries. I'd like to talk a bit more about this issue. I have been looking into this issue for approximately one year, when I became aware of the problem. We met with fellows from Laval University who raised this issue. Some individuals are in favour of it and others not.
Did the government inform you that this whole issue has been stalled?
10:10 a.m.
President, Conseil national des cycles supérieurs (Québec)
Up until now, we have been unable to meet with government representatives, be it from Industry Canada or the Canada Revenue Agency.
I know that the Government of Quebec was made aware of the problem. The ministère du Développement économique, de l'Innovation et de l'Exportation does not intend to tax bursaries. The Government of Quebec will not be following in the footsteps of the federal government, which is a good thing. That being said, we have no indications as to whether or not the federal government will overturn its decision.
This year, what is important is to find out whether or not the government is looking back, namely will it be taxing bursaries retroactive to 2006, which, for certain individuals, will be extremely problematic. Some post-doctoral fellows want to brandish posters and sign petitions, which is extremely rare and strange, in our opinion.
10:10 a.m.
Bloc
10:10 a.m.
President, Conseil national des cycles supérieurs (Québec)
In Quebec, that will have an impact on approximately 2,000 post-doctoral fellows.
10:10 a.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
The Canada Revenue Agency has issued comments stating that there is a relationship of subordination between the employer and the fellow, and define the fellow as an employee. Are you aware of these discussions?
10:10 a.m.
President, Conseil national des cycles supérieurs (Québec)
There is a consensus in Quebec, particularly within the Association des doyens des études supérieures in Quebec, the ADESAQ, and the ministère de l'Éducation: we recognize these individuals as students in training because there is guidance given from the supervisor. So it's more like the relationship of a doctoral student rather than a student-researcher relationship.
10:10 a.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
Very well, thank you.
I would like to ask Mr. Turk, of the Canadian Association of University Teachers, a question. You do not refer to this problem in your brief. Is this issue of taxing post-doctoral fellowships raised outside of Quebec?
10:10 a.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of University Teachers
We have a different view from Mr. Viau. We see post-doctoral fellows not as students but as academics who are in an employment relationship. The problem is not that their income is being taxed; the problem is that what they're paid is far too low. That's how it needs to be addressed. These people have completed their PhDs, are accomplished scholars, and typically in the sciences will spend two or three years working in a lab getting more experience before they then take on a professorial position. But they are fully accomplished scholars.
In most fields in the humanities you go straight from your PhD to a professorial job. In the sciences, typically you spend two or three years in a post-doc before doing that. But we think the problem is they're paid as if they're students when they're not. They are employees and they should be paid appropriately. We think that's the solution to the problem.
10:10 a.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
However, you did say that their salary is not very high. In addition, if they are deemed to be employees, this salary will be taxed.
10:10 a.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of University Teachers
That's right. But the solution to it is not to not tax them. That still leaves them with a low income. The solution is to pay them properly. The granting councils have a level of pay so post-docs are paid out of grants, and it's remarkably low. I think, as Mr. Viau said, it's sometimes less than a PhD student will get. That's the problem. Not taxing them was an attempt to create some benefit, given how badly they're paid. But we have to address the real problem, that if we want to retain them, if we want to attract and keep top-notch post-docs, then we have to pay them appropriately.
10:15 a.m.
Bloc
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I am more than happy to share my time with you, so if you just indicate when I'm done, that would be great.
Great presentations evoke a lot of questions, but the question I'm going to ask is for the Canadian Clean Technology Coalition.
You mentioned a number of challenges facing clean technology companies. There are five on the first page of your document. You also mentioned that the market for these companies is heating up. You suggested an own-the-podium strategy, which could see 20 companies achieve revenues of $100 million. Could you explain that strategy just a bit?
10:15 a.m.
Partner, Russell Mitchell Group, Canadian Clean Technology Coalition
Thank you for the question.
Many of our companies are at a pivotal stage in their development right now. They are exporters, but they're relatively small. About 60% of Canada's clean technology companies intend to be globally competitive and intend to secure investment. I'll give you some quick numbers.
There are 436 companies, 320 of which are in commercialization and 60% of those intend to be globally competitive. That's 200 companies, and they intend to be globally competitive while raising financing. There are between five and ten investments per year in Canada in this sector. That means there is 5% coverage of the 200 companies. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. The investments have to be of quality and investors have to get a return on their investment. Moreover, as I said earlier in the question regarding the financing, our companies get between 32¢ and 10¢ compared to our American competitors. So a management team will have three vice-presidents instead of nine or ten. It's a very substantial difference.
We want to move to the point where as Canadians we have confidence in procuring our technologies in clean technology, which is much more than wind and solar technology. You'll notice the diagram speaks of nine different sectors, the majority of which have to do with the conservation of resources, be it water or energy.
The first thing is we need to procure from ourselves. We don't procure technology readily and we don't procure clean Canadian technology readily. So that's part of the own-the-podium plan.
The second thing is that as Canadian businesses we prefer to build great technology rather than focus on selling it. So the companies themselves have changes to make in the way they operate.
Then the third thing is that investors have to be attracted to Canada, and a buoyant domestic market is part of that.
10:15 a.m.
Partner, Russell Mitchell Group, Canadian Clean Technology Coalition
Thank you for the question.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Thank you, Mrs. Block.
I just wanted to ask one follow-up question for the clean tech.
This morning I was at the breakfast and I asked a gentleman from NextEra what his biggest challenge was. He said access to capital, by far. He said that's why SDTC was important, because it's small access to capital, but it also is increasingly a signal to the venture capital community that SDTC has done its homework on that specific company. But I didn't notice that in your brief. Is there a reason for that? Or do you agree with that statement?
10:15 a.m.
Partner, Russell Mitchell Group, Canadian Clean Technology Coalition
Absolutely. The recapitalization of SDTC is an important part of the investment strategy for the Cleantech 20 by 2020. SDTC showed its leadership as a title sponsor of the report, which we referred to, which is the basis of the coalition. Investors around the world, whether they're strategic investors in industry or venture capitalists or pension funds, all look to SDTC because of the quality of those companies.
The problem is, though, it becomes a bit of a shopping list, so we have to actually have the next step. We are funding companies to get to the point where their technology is scalable and economic through SDTC, which is critically important, but then we need to start adopting it ourselves so that investors will come into our Canadian companies with conviction.
10:20 a.m.
Chief Information Officer, LED Roadway Lighting, Canadian Clean Technology Coalition
I'll just add to that point as well. Last night actually was the deadline for another round of SDTC funding, and we did put an application in as well, because we see the importance of that as a step and a signal out to investors.
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Thanks.
Mr. Dubeau, who will administer the $25 million?
10:20 a.m.
Co-chair, Canadian Arts Coalition
That is a good question. Earlier, I had started to say that clearly, the Canada Council for the Arts has a role to play in supporting the promotion of arts and culture on the international scene, however, it should not be the only player that promotes and is responsible for cultural diplomacy. No doubt there are roles to be played by the Department of Foreign Affairs and by the Department of Canadian Heritage, at other levels, as they must intervene elsewhere than in areas of jurisdiction—