Evidence of meeting #24 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was young.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON
But you would agree that really is the core of the problem here, not so much youth unemployment, as such, as generally defined, but the chronic unemployment among youth. That is the real problem, isn't it?
Executive Director and Deputy Chief Economist, Conference Board of Canada
Well, having said that I'm not quite sure what those numbers are, certainly when you look at the 20- to 24-year-olds, you do see—as Mr. Poschmann highlighted—a very different situation there in terms of the unemployment rates. But I think in general we are seeing youth participation rates into the labour force in both those cohorts not up to where they were previous to the recession. So we've lost about three percentage points in terms of participation.
Conservative
Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON
Okay.
Mr. Poschmann, if you could just comment quickly on.... When an economy is bad it affects everybody, not just youth or not just older workers. In an improving economy, as we have now, is there a lag, would you say, in youth unemployment, and chronically unemployed youth? If you could just talk about those two for a quick few seconds.
Conservative
Vice-President, Research, C.D. Howe Institute
Yes, thank you.
I'm unaware of any key distinction or data that would help me answer that. I will point out, though, that chronic unemployment among youth is a significant problem in some economies like Spain and Portugal. It's much less so in Canada, unless we shift to talking about aboriginal or first nations populations, whether on or off reserve. That's a different kettle of fish entirely.
Conservative
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you to our witnesses.
I'm holding the Canadian Chamber of Commerce's labour market report, studying the labour market report from 2013. It cites that employment growth in general across Canada during that year was 0.6%, the slowest pace since 2009; that 95% of those jobs created were in part-time positions; and that employment gains were concentrated among men and women aged 55 and over. That's the chamber's report from just this past year. Of all those jobs that were created, 70% were created in one province.
So when we talk about the youth unemployment scene, it seems to me that we're doing it a disservice when we talk about it across the country as if it were one homogenous labour market. Of course it's not, we recognize that.
I want to talk about barriers to mobility. There has been some inference—I think by some—that there's an unwillingness, or just a distastefulness from some youth towards either moving, or moving into certain job sectors. I represent a rural part of the country that has ups and downs as natural resource markets do. The barriers to that mobility are what I want to ask our witnesses about today, because I don't think it serves any purpose to say that youth just have a bad attitude and they don't want to move. I doubt that not having the right attitude is exactly the problem.
Mr. Antunes, if you could start us off, what would you cite as the one or two leading barriers to that mobility that exist right now structurally within our economy for young people.
Executive Director and Deputy Chief Economist, Conference Board of Canada
Well, I would guess that most young people—if they're anything like my son—are still living at home, so you can imagine the barrier to mobility would be the cost of not only travelling and finding work, but of course finding a place to stay, so there are a lot of impediments.
I would think—and I think this has been proposed in the past—some sort of subsidies around mobility would probably be a good way to encourage a little bit more mobility.
NDP
Senior Economist, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
It's pretty awesome that the Conference Board of Canada and the CCPA are suggesting the same thing—
Senior Economist, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
—up to $5,000 to cover costs.
Why are young people unwilling to move? Well, they're either going on spec, they don't know about what jobs are out there. I gave my seven reasons to indicate that people don't know what jobs are out there. A lot of the labour market opinions that are being sought by companies that are looking for temporary foreign workers are not jobs that are listed out there. They're supposed to be, but they're not. People don't know where the jobs are, we need better labour market information. Don Drummond, Statistics Canada, everybody's saying we need a better labour force survey that helps universities and schools right down to the high school and junior high level tell people where the jobs are coming from and what jobs are needed. Then you encourage people to leave.
When you talk about encouraging people to leave from small communities to go elsewhere, awesome. Those costs are high; you need first and last month's rent. Reduce some of those barriers, help them make that move. I also think it's really crazy to say, “Let's hollow out all of our small communities all over the country that are in slow growth areas”, or else what you're doing is basically saying, “Hey, 70% of the jobs are in Alberta. Everybody, quick, go to Alberta!” Then when the next bust happens, what happens to all those people?
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
There are other costs to be incurred.
Mr. Antunes, you talked about.... Temporary foreign workers have been a part of this conversation and I'm curious, first from you and then Ms. Schirle, about the supply-demand questions that we have facing people who are particularly headed toward the trades. There has been a suggestion as well that there is a bias against young people getting those tickets.
I find with many of the young people going through those very trades programs that there is a second barrier for that mobility. When a company is looking, if it can access a temporary foreign worker with tickets or an apprentice finishing third or fourth year of their apprenticeship, the value equation, for many resource companies at least, is to simply pick the temporary foreign worker, the path of least resistance that may be cheaper but certainly is a quicker alternative.
Is there any problem within our temporary foreign worker program particularly on that highly skilled ticketed side of things that is putting a depressant factor on those young people being able to get enough hours to qualify and move into that more secure environment?
Executive Director and Deputy Chief Economist, Conference Board of Canada
I don't know if I should leave the word to Ms. Schirle.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Ms. Schirle, perhaps since your voice hasn't been in this conversation, you could give some ideas.
Associate Professor, Department of Economics, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual
Sure. This is a situation where we have a bit of a lag in training time. The shortage, as we think of it, really started a few years ago and it takes time for people to get through that market, and yes, it's easier for employers to pick up the temporary foreign workers. But again, that's sending appropriate wage signals. It's a friction; you just have to wait it through.
A couple of years from now I think that scenario will be very different. Students are taking up the trades. Our enrolment in arts programs in Ontario are down for a reason. They are finding other things to do.
Executive Director and Deputy Chief Economist, Conference Board of Canada
I'd just go back very quickly to the point that it's been a very good program. We deal with a lot of industry sectors. Businesses tell us how valuable that program is even though it is expensive and hard to apply, but it is looking like it's become a permanent program and the stock of workers is too high. I think we need to address this gap in youth employment, this missed opportunity with youth.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Cullen.
We'll go to Mr. Allen, please.
Conservative
Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to our witnesses for being here today.
I'd like to start with you, Mr. Antunes. You brought up the baby boomers and retirees. I just look at my area, which has a lot of agriculture with a lot of farmers who are actually in that 50-55 year age group. They're looking to get out and a lot of the young people aren't looking to take this on. We need some entrepreneurs willing to do that.
One of the questions I'd like to ask you is in regard to a conclusion in one of your previous studies about the communication being better between employers and post-secondary education. In what concrete ways can that be made better?
Obviously, Germany has very low youth unemployment rates and some of that is because of the trades. They've been doing better coordination and communication on that. What concrete things could be done better in Canada to help that?
Executive Director and Deputy Chief Economist, Conference Board of Canada
One thing has been mentioned by Ms. Yalnizyan, but essentially training and better aligning and better information around the labour market, so labour market information is the issue that would help.
I do know, for example, that the Working in Canada site is very good. I don't know whether youth are all that well informed about it. I think it's just informing youth a little better about what's available and what we are already doing in terms of those programs.
In terms of concrete issues, it is one of information. It's one of getting that information out better to youth, to the young people.
Conservative
Executive Director and Deputy Chief Economist, Conference Board of Canada
The background information is being done. We work with the Canadian occupational projection system, which is a branch of what used to be HRSDC, now ESDC. There is some very good work being done looking at the future of labour markets in Canada.
I just don't know if that information is being disseminated as well as it could be through communication in the media, through other venues, just to let people know that the information is out there.
Conservative
Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Ms. Schirle, I'd like to go to you. I want to pick up on one of the comments you made.
In essence, it relates to tax simplification. It relates to your last comment about the series of 18 tax credits and other things that are out there for a young man, you said in this case, but a lot of young women are taking up the trades as well.
Do you have any specific evidence in your discussions with young people about the challenge it is to kind of get at and make understandable all these tax breaks for them?