Finance Committee on May 29th, 2014

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Sorry, Chair, I didn't mean to impugn your motives.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

That's okay.

Shall clauses 120 to 162 carry?

(Clauses 120 to 162 inclusive agreed to on division)

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

We want to thank our officials from Health Canada for their time here this evening. We appreciate your participation.

(On clause 163)

We will bring Mr. McCauley from the CRA forward again, and we'll deal with division 4, which has one clause on the Importation of Intoxicating Liquors Act.

We have one clause and one amendment, PV-11.

I will ask Ms. May to speak to that, please.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I was very supportive of the private member's bill that was brought forward by Dan Albas that got the ball rolling on Free My Grapes.

I wanted to expand this slightly, which certainly would assist some of the producers in my own riding of Saanich—Gulf Islands. I wanted to expand it to allow the importation across provincial borders to include “by an individual or a small-scale, Canadian-owned producer”. That expands this not just to the individual who can get it across the provincial border but to small-scale Canadian-owned producers of wine, beer, or spirits.

I'm aware, Mr. Chair, as I think you are, that it has been considered that this effort may be found outside the principles of the bill, so I turn to you. I appreciate the chance to present it because I think it's in the spirit of the bill, but I have a feeling that I'm alone in that.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Well, it's in a grey area, so I'm going to allow the amendment to go forward.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

We'll have discussion on the amendment.

Mr. Cullen, please.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Chair. I'll turn to Mr. McCauley.

These are so much happier circumstances in which to meet you, Mr. McCauley, rather than in discussing the estimates of the CRA.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Now we're talking about a subject that is probably closer to all of our hearts.

One of our questions around this is: do the current provisions, as imagined in this budget implementation act, allow for this already? Is there any distinction between these small producers and larger producers? Is there any harm or hazard that could come to some of the smaller operators in the country with this cross-border provision?

[Brian McCauley, Assistant Commissioner, Canada Revenue Agency]

There isn't anything in the current bill that would speak to this, no.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

So redundancy is not a concern that you have? I don't want to put words in your mouth. You're not arguing against it.

The question then is what you view as the impacts of amendment PV-11 on the bill.

[Brian McCauley]

Again, not arguing the merit of the intention of the change—

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Yes, thank you, just look for impacts.

[Brian McCauley]

For sure.

I think the challenge we have is that the discussion at the ag committee and the earlier change about wine, all that dealt with personal importations. This starts to get into the world of commercial importation.

The discussions there provided an opportunity for the provinces and others to come forward with some observations. We haven't, frankly, had that opportunity. That's not a complaint; it's just an observation.

Some of the areas, if there had been more time, would be the definition of a Canadian producer, I think also the small producer, what is promotion, and those kinds of things. We would have probably ordinarily defined those a bit more. There would have been a bit of clarity if we were bringing something like this forward. Those are the kinds of things we would have scrubbed a little bit if we had considered something like this.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Sure.

Then here's a question to you just in terms of process. Can those definitions be further scrubbed, as you put it, or further well defined through regulation? Does it have to be an enactment of law?

My question is to imagine this amendment going forward, being accepted, and put into law. Does the CRA—if it's the CRA making these designations—have the power through regulations to then better define who this would apply to and who it doesn't?

[Brian McCauley]

I guess, at the end of the day, we do our best with whatever legislation the House passes.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

And God love you for it. Thank you.

[Brian McCauley]

There isn't a set of regulations for this bill, I don't think. I'm not sure it's necessarily provided for, because it's a different kind of bill. But I'm not saying that's an absolute barrier either. It's just, again, there's been a shortage of time to assess what might or might not happen coming out of this.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Welcome to our life.

The estimation, then, from us, from the New Democrat side, is that if this allows what we would traditionally call “small producers” to move their product across borders.... We are generous people in British Columbia where I come from, and we wouldn't want to keep all that fabulous fantastic wine to ourselves. It's not just because I'm from B.C., but we'll be voting in favour of this motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

Now, I'm not sure which Conservative I have—

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

I'm going to take some time.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

You are? Okay.

Mr. Keddy, please.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'll try to be fairly succinct here, which is going to be a bit difficult because—