Finance Committee on May 5th, 2015

[Yaya Fanusie]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Then they monitor the entire sale and they tax that sale. I think it's almost offensive to call it a “tax”, but what percentage do they apply to that sale?

[Yaya Fanusie]

It depends on the item. ISIS will tax up to 20%, 50%, or more, depending on the items, from reports I've seen.

It very much depends on the individuals involved, the item, and how valuable the item is. There is not a set price.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Who is buying the items?

[Yaya Fanusie]

The items are smuggled. At the end of the day, the chain is murky, to be very honest. You have people who smuggle other types of goods across borders, who smuggle oil, who smuggle people, and you have similar people involved here. You have middlemen whose job it is to smuggle and to find an underground black market.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

We've had oil discussed at committee before. Who are the main purchasers of the oil and the oil products from ISIS?

[Yaya Fanusie]

I don't know if anyone else here wants to say anything, but I'll say a little bit about this.

We didn't talk about the smuggling route. What happens is that ISIS, even with the low oil prices, will sell oil at a discount. Because of that discount, it's really just driven the smuggling. Oil is taken from those areas into Turkey. That's where you have, as I mentioned, the middlemen, the smugglers will take oil across the border and sell it to towns and to people who want to buy the oil.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Johnston, do you want to comment briefly on any of that, the artifacts or the oil?

[Patrick Johnston]

In the interest of time, I'll just say that I agree with almost everything Mr. Fanusie said.

I would add one thing on the artifacts. I think there's relatively good documentation on the ISIS cut of this, which, if you want to call it a tax or whatever, tends to be about 20%. He's right that certain other taxes are as high as 50%, and still other taxes are as low as, I think, 2%. It does vary a lot by good. Some of this is because of religious values and so on. Some of it is just pure profit motive and internal markets at work.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

I'll go now to Mr. Brison, please.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Chair, I have a couple of questions, but Mr. Rankin was pursuing a line of questioning that I found compelling. I would like to provide him with an opportunity to continue. Would that be fine?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Are you asking your questions first?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

I have a couple of questions, then I'd like to give Mr. Rankin some time.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Well, the clerk advises me that it's a grey area because it's a Liberal round.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

I'm seeking consent from the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I would prefer that a Liberal member take a Liberal round. It makes it much easier for the chair.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

In the interest of cooperation among the parties, I thought we could go back to Mr. Rankin.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Does Mr. Brison have consent of the committee to share his round with Mr. Rankin?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

He was pursuing, I thought, a very compelling line of questions.

I would ask my colleagues from the Conservative Party—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I'm advised that the chair can't decide. It's at the consent of the committee.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Do we have the consent of the committee, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Is that okay if he shares his round?

[Andrew Saxton, Conservative, North Vancouver, BC]

I think half of Brison's time is already gone.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Yes.

Okay. You have four minutes, Mr. Brison.