Finance Committee on May 12th, 2016

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

You raise an important point. This is a very important question, and that's why I want to focus on it. We heard a lot about the Australian experience, which doesn't seem to be one that has favoured consumers. What do you know about the Australian experience, or what can you tell the committee about it?

[Alex Scholten]

I think there are a couple of things going on in Australia that have to be differentiated here. First of all, their capping of fees I believe has been very effective, and has resulted in supporting small businesses in that country. The issue that has really been controversial is the surcharging. Consumers have been detrimentally impacted in that case. Some retailers have been charging more than what their actual credit card fees are, taking advantage of that, and making it a profit centre.

In that regard, as I said, it hasn't been a benefit to consumers, and that's not something here in Canada that our associations, with Small Business Matters, have ever been a proponent of. We are proposing, or asking, that a cap on credit card fees be put in place, but we are not asking for surcharging.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you very much to you both.

Mr. McColeman, you have a five-minute round.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I wanted to drill into the effects of the tax changes, the small business tax changes, of not fulfilling the promise the government made during the election campaign to take it to 9%. There were many broken promises, as we know—$10 billion, a balanced budget in this term, and those such things.

I think there's an elephant in the room, and I'd like to ask you, Mr. Scholten, to tell us the name or names of the individuals who gave you the information to bring testimony here today that you.... Through your initial remarks, you said that in the second budget, I believe, they would be reducing this to 9%.

[Alex Scholten]

No, not that they would be reducing—

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I didn't hear him say that anyone said that anything would be in the second budget.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

He said 2017.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Could Mr. Scholten answer? Then we'll come back to whether or not there's a point of order.

[Alex Scholten]

Certainly.

This was not something that was promised to us. This was not something that we know will be in there. But what we were told, in talking with Finance and in talking with small business—

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Fine. I can stop you there. Who told you? What are the names of the individuals who told you?

[Alex Scholten]

The clerk in the Finance office.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

And what's that person's name?

[Alex Scholten]

I can't even recall; I'm sorry. I will provide it to you—

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I'd like to move to a motion, Mr. Chair. I have the floor. I'd like to put my motion on the floor.

You said, sir, it was the clerk?

[Alex Scholten]

Yes.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I'll just read the motion: “That the Standing Committee on Finance compels officials of the Department of Finance, as well as the finance minister and his exempt staff, to provide documents indicating any plans to reduce the small business tax rate during the course of the government's present mandate, including any correspondence or discussions with the Canadian Convenience Stores Association or other industry associations indicating a plan to proceed with a small business tax reduction in 2017.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Do you have that written out?

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Yes, I do, right here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

May we have a copy for members?

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Yes, we'll get it printed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Can we come back to it then a little....

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I'll second the motion.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Yes, we can come back to it. I want to be clear on a point of order, the motion is on the floor right now and it will be dealt with during this time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

If the motion is in order it will be on the floor. I want to see it, so we can look at it to see if it is in order.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Okay.