Evidence of meeting #70 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was housing.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Suzie Cadieux
Gary Simonsen  Chief Executive Officer, The Canadian Real Estate Association
Gary Mauris  President, Dominion Lending Centres
Katherine McDowell  President, Alberta Mortgage Brokers Association
Adil Mawji  Vice-President, Alberta Mortgage Brokers Association
Keith Lancastle  Chief Executive Officer, Appraisal Institute of Canada
Pénéla Guy  Chief Executive Officer, Québec Federation of Real Estate Boards
Paul Cardinal  Manager, Market Analysis, Québec Federation of Real Estate Boards
David Graham  Director, Urban Development Institute of Nova Scotia
Dan Brewer  President, Appraisal Institute of Canada

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I call the committee to order. Before we go to the witnesses on the study of the Canadian real estate market and home ownership, we have a couple of budgetary items to deal with. The clerk has handed those budgets around.

The first one is a request for $23,900 for the study we're currently doing. We need this money to pay those witnesses, etc. Does somebody want to move that budget?

(Motion agreed to)

The second budget deals with the postponed study on the comprehensive review of Canada's tax system.

The clerk feels that the amount of $9,600 is high, but we do have an obligation to cover those witnesses who may have already purchased tickets, and there are cancellation fees.

Do we have a mover for this budget as well?

Mr. Liepert.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

Since the government cancelled the study, I suggest they move that we cover those costs.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

It's postponed, Ron.

That's moved by Greg. All those in favour?

Do you have a question?

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Yes. So some people may have already expended moneys and cancelled their flights, and so we are going to be covering for that plus...or what exactly does this amount cover?

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Do you want to explain it, Suzie?

3:35 p.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Ms. Suzie Cadieux

It's for the witnesses who we've already confirmed for next week's meeting, those who have booked flights and things like that, which they will incur a fee to cancel. We'll cover that.

All those witnesses will be reinvited when the committee undertakes the study again, but since the committee does reimburse reasonable expenses as per the policy for their travel arrangements, we have to pay for those cancellation fees.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Okay. Of course, we're saying we're very sorry. Is that correct?

3:35 p.m.

The Clerk

Indeed.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Okay.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

All right. All those in favour?

(Motion agreed to)

Turning then to today's agenda and the witnesses who are here for the study on the Canadian real estate market and home ownership, I would like to thank all of the witnesses for coming.

We'll start with The Canadian Real Estate Association. We have Mr. Simonsen, chief executive officer, and Mr. Cathcart.

Go ahead, Mr. Simonsen.

3:35 p.m.

Gary Simonsen Chief Executive Officer, The Canadian Real Estate Association

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Canadian Real Estate Association would like to thank the committee for the opportunity to participate in the study on the Canadian real estate market and home ownership.

CREA represents over 120,000 realtors from across the country. As one of Canada's largest single-industry associations, we represent real estate brokers and agents, as well as homebuyers and property owners throughout the country.

Canada's housing market is a key component of Canada's overall economic stability and an important generator of jobs and economic security for the middle class. In 2016, each home sale generated over $52,000 in spinoff spending. This translates to one job for every three real estate transactions. In addition, resale housing transactions, through the multiple listing service, generated more than $28 billion in consumer spinoff spending and created more than 198,000 jobs in 2016.

Most Canadians see their home as a source of pride, satisfaction, and accomplishment, not to mention a safe environment in which to raise their family, create happy memories, and create a sense of community. This is why CREA has been advocating for the indexation and modernization of the homebuyer's plan, a program that allows Canadians to use their RRSP savings to purchase their first home. We were pleased to see that the plan was included in multiple election platforms in 2015, and we will continue to work with the government to ensure it remains a valuable program for all Canadians.

As all real estate is local, it is important to note that the housing markets in and around Toronto and Vancouver have different realities compared with markets elsewhere in Canada, most of which are either well balanced or amply supplied. It is crucial to consider and reflect upon different areas of the country when enacting policy that affects a wide swath of housing markets, including places not targeted directly by the government's recent regulatory measures.

Consumer demand in markets such as Toronto and Vancouver is at an all-time high, and there is a significant shortage in the housing supply. Various factors have caused an imbalance in the supply and demand of homes, which in turn drives up prices significantly. As this is a complex matter, CREA is encouraged that the federal government created a working group comprising federal officials as well as provincial and municipal representatives. The three levels of government will be able to focus on the challenges in each region and recognize the local reality for all markets.

While the provincial governments in Ontario and British Columbia have recently introduced measures to assist first-time homebuyers, the federal government has tightened national mortgage rules, thereby lessening affordability for those seeking to enter the market. If the federal government continues to tighten mortgage rules, will this force provincial governments to implement further programs to assist first-time homebuyers?

CREA and its realtor members urge all levels of government to continue to work together to reach a healthy, competitive, and stable housing market. We are prepared to share analysis of local housing market trends and apply our knowledge and data to help the government policy-makers at all levels better understand how changes to housing-market regulations may affect communities across Canada.

Assistance for first-time homebuyers should be top of mind for all levels of government. First-time homebuyers need support to overcome the obstacle of saving for a down payment in order to reach their home ownership dream. The plan's purchasing power is steadily declining and it has become less valuable due to the increase in home prices.

We recommend that the plan be indexed to inflation to preserve its purchasing power and so that it can continue to help first-time homebuyers attain home ownership. Easing affordability concerns is a key principle of the plan, and Canadians should be able to benefit from this program more than once. Canadians and their families who face sudden life changes, such as job relocation, the death of a spouse, a marital breakdown, or the decision to accommodate an elderly family member, may need support in order to maintain home ownership. Expanding the plan to enable Canadians to use their RRSPs as a zero-interest self-loan is a fiscally responsible way to support families through a difficult period of change.

In the last eight years, the federal government has implemented six rounds of changes to tighten the rules for new government-backed insured mortgages and to contain risks in the housing market. These measures have been implemented, some over a very short time period, and their full impact has yet to be determined.

We recommend that the government take a pause to fully evaluate the cumulative impact of the changes before looking at implementing additional measures.

Thank you for your time. I would be pleased to answer any questions the committee members may have.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Thank you very much, Mr. Simonsen.

Turning to the Dominion Lending Centres, we have Mr. Mauris, president, and Mr. Teixeira, vice-president of marketing, public relations, and communications.

3:40 p.m.

Gary Mauris President, Dominion Lending Centres

Good afternoon, honourable members. Thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this important work you are all doing.

Dominion Lending Centres is Canada's largest network of accredited mortgage professionals, with over 5,000 active brokers nationwide.

Together with our affiliated companies, we facilitate approximately 38% of all mortgages brokered in Canada, more than any of the big five banks.

At DLC we pride ourselves on both being experts in the finances of real estate and having our ears to the ground, when it comes to the concerns of the Canadian consumer.

Each year our mortgage professionals work alongside lenders to provide Canadian families the opportunity to realize the dream of long-term financial security in a home.

Before we begin, I want to make it clear that mortgage brokers are neither part of a big bank nor monoline lenders. Mortgage brokers originate one-third of all new mortgages in Canada each year. We provide competitive tension between lenders, and choice and options for consumers, and we serve not only major urban centres but also the small underserved regional communities that make up the landscape of our country.

Our job is to find consumers the right mortgage for their family at the best rates. We are agnostic as to which solution is right for each family, and we are agnostic as to which lender funds that mortgage.

We are, however, an authority on value. We find, broadly speaking, that a lot of the new rules that have been proposed here would drive down affordability. Our biggest issue with these proposals is that the government did not consult with our industry, our brokers, our monoline partners, our credit union partners, our two competitive insurers, our real estate partners, our housing partners, or anyone outside of the big banks for that matter.

Policy-makers did not have the benefit of our intimate perspective when they made these changes unilaterally, something that will end up hurting all Canadians. These proposals skew consumers in the direction of the already dominant big banks, and while those may represent viable solutions for some Canadians, for many others, the monoline lenders better fit their needs.

When policy favours the big banks, it reduces overall competition in the mortgage marketplace, and that hurts Canadian consumers, regardless of what solution they use for their homes.

The other thing I want to emphasize before we begin is that these national-scale changes are impacting the entire country, whereas they're clearly directed at two hot housing markets, Toronto and Vancouver. We think that a smart policy would be to implement whichever proposals are enacted, on a regional basis, taking into account differences across the country.

While we understand and agree with the government's desire to protect consumers, Dominion Lending Centres disagrees with certain aspects of the recent mortgage rule changes as they make housing less affordable, not more affordable.

Let's begin with the stress test. The net effect of the stress test on many homebuyers is that their purchasing power has now been reduced by upwards of 20%. This has a significant impact not only on first-time homebuyers, but on many middle-class Canadians who need extra room for their growing families. As a result, housing is less affordable rather than more affordable, and individuals and families who have had their purchasing power reduced have to look at purchasing condos with monthly fees, or smaller homes in less desirable locations that require them to commute to work and school.

Others, who now must postpone home purchases to save more money, are falling further behind as house prices in many regions rise and become further and further out of reach.

We agree with the government's core objective of reducing the risk of a major rise in defaults should rates increase. We also agree that a stress test is the most prudent policy to achieve this. But what I can also tell you is that even with a hot housing market, there is a very low chance of the kind of defaults witnessed in the United States in 2008, given that the current default rate is 0.28%. That's right. It's roughly just one-quarter of one per cent. It's important to remember that when setting the rate at which the stress test is implemented.

Let's move to the restrictions on low-ratio mortgage insurance eligibility requirements. While traditional lenders, the big banks, have multiple revenue streams to finance mortgage loans, giving them the ability to effectively insure their own loans, the same cannot be said of non-bank or monoline lenders. Monoline lenders access funds through the mortgage-backed securities market, which can be accessed only with insured mortgages. They rely on portfolio insurance to finance their lending activity.

As a result of the new requirements, investors are less inclined to fund monolines that now must charge higher rates, as investors expect a risk premium that must be priced in and passed along to the consumer. This, again, puts the banks at a competitive advantage as the monoline rates and costs go up. Mortgage credit availability is reduced to the extent that some monolines will now be forced to close or merge with other institutions, also reducing competition in the marketplace. Again, just like the new stress test rules, the net impact on the consumer is negative, making housing less affordable.

Because the new rules prohibit insurance on non-owner-occupied properties, there is an added strain on the already tight rental market, as those who invest in rental properties now face higher rates and much fewer borrowing options.

We recommend that the government reverse these changes or at least allow refinanced mortgages and mortgages on homes valued at up to $1.5 million to be portfolio-insured, given that in some major markets homes over $1 million are commonplace and not a luxury. We would also be open to seeing the threshold reduced to a 75% loan-to-value ratio, rather than removing eligibility for these products entirely.

With regard to mortgage insurance rules and lender risk sharing, we believe that a lender risk-sharing program would raise the risk associated with funding mortgages and increase the amount of capital that lenders require. Again, while banks are sufficiently capitalized to retain loans on their books, smaller lenders are not and thus they would need to increase mortgage lending rates to offset additional risk, increasing costs to consumers. Even the banks are likely to pass off the costs of risk sharing to the consumer, increasing fees and mortgage rates, further reducing housing affordability.

In summary, Dominion Lending Centres recognizes and appreciates the government's legitimate concerns regarding the debt load of Canadians and housing affordability. Regardless of whether someone lives in a hot housing market, like the GTA, or in the Prairies, where house prices have remained flat for the past several years, it is important to remember, when setting and analyzing housing and mortgage policy, that 70% of households in Canada own their dwellings. Many Canadians are relying on equity in their home for their retirement cushion. By making housing less affordable and reducing demand—impacting home values and skewing the market in the direction of the large banks—we are unintentionally putting home ownership out of reach for many Canadians and making it more expensive for those already in their homes today.

It will be a sad day when the government unintentionally lops off more than 20% of Canadians' net worth by hastily instituting a policy that radically impacts one of the most admired housing markets in the world.

With regard to mortgage rules and recommendations, and in addition to the recommendations I've mentioned here today, we echo those put forward by Mortgage Professionals Canada, as well as many of the insurers and monoline lenders. We think that, as this is an industry that handles more than one third of all mortgages in Canada, it's important to consult mortgage brokers and industry stakeholders in advance, before setting these types of policies.

In summary, we have five proposals.

Number one, allow 12 to 18 months to study the impact of all changes made to date before considering any further changes.

Number two, modify the stress test to better reflect future rate expectations, and mandate that banks have to qualify all conventional mortgages at the same stress test threshold, eliminating the existing unlevel playing field.

Number three, given the number of further damaging consequences, do not proceed with the risk-sharing model.

Number four, reverse the decision and allow portfolio insurance on refinances and rental properties. If an 80% loan-to-value ratio is objectionable, reduce the threshold to 75% rather than removing that eligibility entirely.

Number five, continue to work closely with other levels of government and industry to study and address individual housing markets at the regional level.

One last point I would make, which I think is pertinent, is that it has to be clearly understood by everyone that we are not against the “big five” banks in Canada. They are great partners to us, and we do a lot of business. As a matter of fact, we do more loan origination through them than through any of their other partners. We're on their side, and we've been very supportive of every mortgage rule change since 2008, more than two dozen of them.

This is the only time ever that you've made a change unilaterally, and very quickly, without proper consultation, which is having a massive impact on Canadians and their families. This is the only time when the industry has come together universally and said, “Listen, we want to at least provide our feedback, because we think that there has been an error this time. We think that this is not prudent policy.”

I'll wrap by thanking all of you for the opportunity. Thank you for having us here today.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Thank you.

The Alberta Mortgage Brokers Association is next, with Ms. McDowell, president, and Mr. Mawji, vice-president.

Go ahead, please.

3:50 p.m.

Katherine McDowell President, Alberta Mortgage Brokers Association

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My name is Katherine McDowell, and I'm the current president of the Alberta Mortgage Brokers Association. With me is our past president Adil Mawji. We are both licensed and practising mortgage brokers in the province of Alberta. Also joining us is our executive director, Amanda Roy. We appreciate the opportunity to share our thoughts with this committee.

The Alberta Mortgage Brokers Association is the oldest mortgage industry association in the country. For more than 40 years, AMBA has been the voice of the province's mortgage community, including brokerages, lenders, insurers, and industry service providers. More than 2,200 mortgage brokers representing 377 companies make their living in our province by helping Albertans achieve their dream of home ownership.

Canadian mortgage brokers represent $80 billion in annual economic activity and are changing the landscape of mortgage borrowing for the next generation, with 50% of first-time homebuyers using brokers. In Alberta, our members contribute heavily to the provincial economy by arranging financing for new home constructions, resales, and refinances for home improvement and debt services. Mortgage approvals alone in the province generated more than $30 billion as far back as 2010, according to Statistics Canada. We are seeing first-hand the negative impact of the mortgage rule changes across Canada, especially to the Alberta consumer and economy.

The unintended consequence of what we believe were mostly unnecessary changes at this time is a weakening of the middle class through the transferring of wealth in the form of higher interest costs and mortgage insurance costs for the consumer.

Alberta has been the poster child for what regulators fear. There have been two years of solid recession. According to the regulators, these changes were made to protect consumers from any impact resulting from higher unemployment rates or interest rate increases. We are not against a stress test in some form, although not as it currently exists, but our province has already been a test environment for the effects of unemployment. Prudent underwriting rules previously put in place for those very reasons have already given us the ability to weather that storm.

In 2014, Alberta had an unemployment rate of 4.7%, and the number of households in arrears was 0.27%, which was just under the national average. By 2016, our unemployment rate had drastically increased from 4.7% to 8.5% by the fourth quarter, and the number of households in arrears was 0.41%. An 81% increase to unemployment between 2014 and 2016 resulted in a relatively moderate increase in delinquencies from 0.27% to 0.41% in that same time period, according to CMHC data.

At this time, we don't even know the impact of the wildfires in Fort McMurray in May of 2016, but according to that data, Q2 reported a 0.37% rate of delinquencies, and that number jumped those last few percentage points to 0.41% by the end of Q3. So we ask, what are these changes really protecting the taxpayer from?

We consider the stress test to be a prudent underwriting measure to protect the Canadian taxpayer. However, we do feel the newly introduced qualifying rate and the way it is calculated are too severe, at 200 basis points higher than the average contract rate.

For consistency across all mortgage applications and for consumer protection, we'd like the government to consider slightly tweaking the qualifying rate and how it's calculated in order to better reflect market conditions. As an example, a potential solution that could be explored is contract rate plus 1% to be applied across all mortgages.

Other presenters to this committee have previously explained how securitization works, but what hasn't been explained is how it directly affects the middle class. Since October 2016, those attempting to buy a home without default insurance have been adversely affected by the transfer of wealth due to increased interest rates from this policy. This is also true for those refinancing.

For example, a middle-class first-time buyer from ten years ago, who has equity in the home and needs funds to renovate in order to move his aging parents into a fully developed basement, is forced to pay more to do so now. Refinancing for this purpose or for other investments typically helps build wealth in the household. The policy change of removing refinances from portfolio insurance will cost these individuals more through increased interest costs, resulting in a decrease in the potential middle-class wealth.

Canadian consumers are now forced to pay more for their mortgages because of the new OSFI guidelines, which make mortgage insurance more expensive to the lenders. As a result of the requirement from mortgage insurers to hold more capital against mortgages they insure, we have seen mortgage insurance premiums increase for both low- and high-ratio mortgages. The effect of this increase on mortgage lenders, both bank and monoline, has been to build that cost into the interest rate charged to the mortgage borrower.

Today we are seeing discounted interest rates on all high-ratio insured mortgages. However, for any low-ratio insured mortgages and any uninsured mortgages, the cost of implementing the capital requirements has been passed on to the mortgage borrower to bear by way of increased interest costs.

Interest rates have been adjusted to reflect the added costs of portfolio insurance or the added cost of capital for lenders to hold these mortgages on their balance sheet. In some cases, these increased costs have almost negated increases to the Canada child benefit.

If a consumer claiming the Canada child benefit for a one-child family makes $90,000 a year, their tax savings would be approximately $1,120 per year. If they have an uninsured mortgage, they would have to earn nearly $1,100 more to pay the additional interest costs on a $400,000 mortgage.

For the high-ratio consumers putting 10% down, due to increased insurance costs their future home equity decreases by $2,700, which is reflective of the amount for an extra premium on a $400,000 mortgage as well.

In closing, we would ask the committee to consider making changes to the new rules in five areas.

We ask that you reconsider the reinclusion of refinances in portfolio insurance.

We recommend the modification of the current stress test to a more market-plus approach.

We ask that you review the increase to the capital reserve requirements and ask more questions about how it was balanced. Alberta, for example, had a significant increase to unemployment, topping at 9%. What was the increase in losses year over year for the insurers? Was it proportional to the increase in insurer capital requirements?

We also request a study into the potential ill effects of regional-based pricing for insurance and request that you consider the effects of regionality as part of the risk-sharing model. We believe that over time it will become very detrimental to Canadians in economically challenged areas where stimulus, rather than added costs, is needed.

In moving forward, we would also ask that the Alberta Mortgage Brokers Association as well as all stakeholders who have testified before the Standing Committee on Finance be considered key stakeholders to be consulted when the committee reviews all real estate finance changes in Canada.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for your time. We are prepared to take any questions you may have.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Thank you to all the witnesses.

Given that we have only one hour, we will go with five-minute rounds. That way we can get more people on, starting with Ms. O'Connell.

February 8th, 2017 / 3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you all for coming.

Let me start off with some questions. I'll ask all of you, and I hope you can give me yes-or-no answers.

The previous government implemented many changes to the mortgage market. There were changes in 2008, 2010, 2011, and 2012. Were any of you consulted prior to those changes?

3:55 p.m.

President, Dominion Lending Centres

Gary Mauris

I'll take a stab at that first. We were consulted via our associations, and our large national association in some of the situations, but not every time. When it was about insurance, as an example, they wouldn't necessarily reach out to us on that.

As I said earlier, the changes this time are so much more categorically damaging than they have ever been before. With the changes in the past, we never had this kind of push-back.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON

Let me then follow up with you since you jumped in on that question. Is Dominion Lender Centres publicly traded?

4 p.m.

President, Dominion Lending Centres

Gary Mauris

Sixty per cent of Dominion Lending Centres is owned by a publicly traded company. It is one company in a portfolio of many.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON

Would you not see a risk if the government made market-sensitive changes that could impact industries that were publicly traded?

4 p.m.

President, Dominion Lending Centres

Gary Mauris

I don't understand the question.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON

When changes like this are developed, there are market sensitivities. With an organization like yours, for example, which is 60% openly traded, do you not see that there could be a risk for things like a shorting of stock?

4 p.m.

President, Dominion Lending Centres

Gary Mauris

I think if you look at the mortgage landscape in Canada and any of the publicly traded companies, especially the monoline lenders, you will see that they have had severe pressure, and some of them have had much short-selling pressure over the past 12 months. I don't necessarily see how that ties in. We're talking about mortgage policy that's going to affect all Canadians now. We're talking about policy that is overreaching in an effort to cool down Vancouver and Toronto. It would be the equivalent of being a schoolteacher and having two misbehaving students, one named Vancouver and one named Toronto, and punishing the entire country. It doesn't make sense.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON

Thank you.

Let me follow up on that line, then. These regulations and these changes actually are trying not to cool down markets but to limit risks to those who have higher debt levels. The changes do not go into effect one way in one region and another way in a different region. It's the debt ratio, not the price or value of homes. It's debt ratio. If you have low debt in a household in Alberta but high debt in Ontario, that's the factive point here, not the value of your home.

You said “overreaching”. The Canadian government helps and supports mortgage companies and lenders more than Australia, the U.S., and the U.K. do. If the Canadian government, with taxpayers' money, no longer backed your insurance, would you be able to operate under your business model?